Aussie girl a mum at just 12

[Bear]

Quite surprised that there are a lot of pro-abortion people on here, I am kinda 50/50 on abortion.

I'm not pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice. I would probably not have an abortion myself except in an extreme situation.... However, I do not believe that this is enough to dictate the rest of the world into doing exactly what I do. If anyone wishes to twist what I just said in order to shove a finger at me and yell "MURDER SUPPORTER!", go ahead. But I clearly only support a singular individual's right to choose.

Same here, I am pro choice. I don't like abortions but sometimes they do need to happen. There are situations where the mother just can't have the baby. Also adoption isn't always the answer.

[Little_Chestnut]

If we didn't have a right to choose woman would just get them done, unsafely, in back alleys. Sometimes serious things happen and, like bear said, sometimes they need to happen.

Yes I am pro-choice, but that doesn't make me pro-abortion. There is a HUGE difference between the two. Put yourself in that 12 year old's shoes. She was probably talked into having sex by her boyfriend. It is really hard to hold someone that young to blame because she is most likely not aware of the consequences since she is a child herself. It was cruel to make her go through that. Right now, since the mother is trying to get her to take care of the child, she has no innocence and childhood left. She has very few options left for the future, and cannot properly become an adult since she will miss out on many of the lessons of childhood.

[draftermatt]

She needs to be fucking shot.

Agreed.

So the 12 year old girl should be shot leaving her child without a mother?

That's ok but aborting a fetus is not?

I'm not going to tell you my thoughts on abortion, unless you really want to know, but I can't fathom how so many people have this fixation on killing the unclean, but an unborn child is a sacred life? What if that unborn baby gets pregnant at 12 too? Kill it too? Boy that was worth killing it's mother over wasn't it?

Quite surprised that there are a lot of pro-abortion people on here

I don't think anyone is "pro-abortion" that means that you think everyone should be aborted.

Edited December 1, 2009 by draftermatt

[MrLlamaLlama]

It's just... anyone who thinks that given this situation, that girl will be able to realistically raise a morally and mentally healthy child, and teach it everything it needs to not be like it's mother, isn't doing alot for the gene pool. Also I was never anti - abortion. Greater good for the greater number.

[_Ray]

She needs to be fucking shot.

Agreed.

So the 12 year old girl should be shot leaving her child without a mother?

That's ok but aborting a fetus is not?

Lol I think we were both being sarcastic.

I don't think anyone is "pro-abortion" that means that you think everyone should be aborted.

The way I see it it simply means that someone would choose abortion over adoption or keeping the baby whenever someone is debating over the three.

but an unborn child is a sacred life?

Every life is a sacred life, with the exception of those who try to infringe upon the lives of others in very negative ways, e.g. Hitler, murderers, abortion 'doctors', etc.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Raybob

[draftermatt]

Every life is a sacred life, with the exception of those who try to infringe upon the lives of others in very negative ways, e.g. Hitler, murderers, abortion 'doctors', etc.

Did you just seriously compare an abortion doctor to Hitler? You know what, never mind I don't even want to try to get into that type of discussion.

You know (not trying to pick on you Raybob) I've never understood the hatred that so called "Christians" have for unwed mothers, abortions, etc. Jesus loved everyone despite their faults and sins. In fact He said "Judge not lest ye be judged" as well as a bunch of other stuff like that.

I've never understood why "Christians" want to be up in someone else's business, judging them and their way of life. Only God can judge people. As long as no laws are being broken then why should you care what people are doing? Does it hurt you in anyway?

[_Ray]

Every life is a sacred life, with the exception of those who try to infringe upon the lives of others in very negative ways, e.g. Hitler, murderers, abortion 'doctors', etc.

Did you just seriously compare an abortion doctor to Hitler? You know what, never mind I don't even want to try to get into that type of discussion.

You know (not trying to pick on you Raybob) I've never understood the hatred that so called "Christians" have for unwed mothers, abortions, etc. Jesus loved everyone despite their faults and sins. In fact He said "Judge not lest ye be judged" as well as a bunch of other stuff like that.

I've never understood why "Christians" want to be up in someone else's business, judging them and their way of life. Only God can judge people. As long as no laws are being broken then why should you care what people are doing? Does it hurt you in anyway?

Because clearly I'm not perfect either. And it's not 'hatred' just strong remose, and wondering: "Why?" . But that' just me, not all Christians in general. Half of them aren't even real Christians who just go to church for the status, or don't even try to follow God's word. e.g., George Tiller.

And yes, I did compare an abortion doctor to Hitler. Hitler took ~3 million innocent lives, George Tiller took around 60,000 innocent lives, enough to compare him to Hitler seeing as it was strictly Children who hadn't gotten the chance to live yet.

Here's an Abortion story that if it doesn't bother you then there's something seriously wrong with you.

Among pro-life advocates, he is famous for the cruelty with which he treats the unborn. No case illustrates the extent of this cruelty better than the tragedy of Baby Sarah Brown, one of his many victims. In 1993, a pregnant teenager and her parents traveled 900 miles to Tiller's office in Kansas to receive an elective late-term abortion.

Tiller began the abortion by injecting a poisonous syringe through the pregnant teenager's uterus and into the upper left side of the unborn baby's face. He then instructed the teenager to return the next day for the completion of the abortion.

To everyone's dismay, the baby did not die during the intervening hours. After the teenager began to complain of serious abdominal pains, her parents rushed her to a local hospital where the baby was eventually born—alive. The delivery room staff felt that life-support would be futile, so they wrapped the baby in a bassinet without attendance. The teenager and her parents quickly left the scene.

Even without medical care, the baby remained alive. After many hours had passed, the delivery room staff decided to give her treatment. Miraculously, she managed to survive through the entire ordeal. "Sarah", as her adoptive parents later named her, lived until the age of 5, when she succumbed to the developmental harm done to her body during the abortion. The KCl solution that had been injected into the side of her face had left her permanently blind and brain damaged.

From January of 2001 to December 2001, Tiller performed 635 abortions after 22 weeks. 395 of these abortions were done on viable babies. As usual, all of the abortions were done for "health" reasons. Not one was done to preserve the life of the mother.

http://www.abortione...les/Tiller.html

Oh, and when I compared Hitler to Abortion 'Doctors', more what I was thinking was: Hitler = Murderer = Abortion 'Doctor'. Hitler relentlessly took thousands (millions in his case) of innocent lives, so do plenty of abortion 'doctors'.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Raybob

[Bear]

I dont believe in abortions when they are in the second term as they are properly formed babies. However in the first term then abortions are OK if there strong reasons. I don't agree with women who use abortions as birth control,some sadly do. But adoption isn't the ultimate answer.

[draftermatt]

Half of them aren't even real Christians who just go to church for the status, or don't even try to follow God's word.

You hit the nail on the head.

I grew up Catholic, my mother didn't really practice (Church on Christmas and Easter), my father a non-practicing Methodist.

Despite that my parents made us go to Sunday School every week to learn about it and gather our own thoughts and make our own decisions. For a while I wanted to be a preacher I was so into religion.

I still believe in God and Jesus and consider myself Catholic. But I refuse to go to a Church that allows pedophiles to roam around and teach people the Word.

Off my high horse now.

Your story is very disturbing.

I am pro choice, but only in extreme cases. I'd much rather see a baby put up for adoption. I can't stand the people who will say "Well I wasn't ready to be a parent" Shouldn't have had sex. There's oral sex, masturbation (alone or mutual) hell anal sex = no kids possible.

"Couldn't afford birth control" It's a lot cheaper than a kid. Or again, don't have sex. It's not like breathing no matter what people seem to act like. I've gone months without an orgasm. Does it suck, hell yes, but I'm still walking around.

Once a baby reaches the 2nd trimester unless the mother's health is at risk there shouldn't be an abortion. Especially the partial birth abortions.

But the problem is, if we ever out right banned abortion you would see a hell of a lot more "back alley" abortions using a coat hanger. Or people "beating" the baby dead (beating on the stomach). Or more babies left in a dumpster.

I'm pro-choice because I don't want to see that happen. And if a girl is raped or the health of the mother or baby will be a problem (death or severe injury/illness) then she and her partner/doctor need to allowed to make that choice. It's a choice I hope I am never faced with.

[Bear]

I think you hit the nail on the head there. If abortion was banned we would be back in the 1950s were women had abortions with a knitting needle which usually killed the mother. In the UK people have no excuse, contraception is free, the pill and condoms are free.

[_Ray]

I'd much rather see a baby put up for adoption. I can't stand the people who will say "Well I wasn't ready to be a parent" Shouldn't have had sex. There's oral sex, masturbation (alone or mutual) hell anal sex = no kids possible.

"Couldn't afford birth control" It's a lot cheaper than a kid. Or again, don't have sex. It's not like breathing no matter what people seem to act like. I've gone months without an orgasm. Does it suck, hell yes, but I'm still walking around.

That's exactly what I've been saying the whole time.

And the whole thing about keeping abortion legal because otherwise people would be doing it in back alleys and dying is absolute BS, because you know what? Their fucking fault. They choose to have a back alley abortion, it's their fault if they die, it's their fault they had unprotected sex.

It's like saying that we're never gonna keep people from murdering, so let's take every murderer and put them in a big hall where they can all go crazy and kill each other.

Is that right?

And just so you all know, when it comes to rape I'm mixed because in that case the mother did nothing wrong, but as always the baby didn't either.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Raybob

[draftermatt]

And the whole thing about keeping abortion legal because otherwise people would be doing it in back alleys and dying is absolute BS, because you know what? Their fucking fault. They choose to have a back alley abortion, it's their fault if they die, it's their fault they had unprotected sex.

It's like saying that we're never gonna keep people from murdering, so let's take every murderer and put them in a big hall where they can all go crazy and kill each other.

Is that right?

And just so you all know, when it comes to rape I'm mixed because in that case the mother did nothing wrong, but as always the baby didn't either.

No I wouldn't say they are at all alike. Yes it's their fault for having unprotected sex, but that doesn't mean people should have to resort to dangerous and life risking things.

Plus wouldn't you rather know that a child was killed before it had begun to have thoughts? When it's still the size of a golf ball rather than someone carry the child to term and punch a hole in it's head or just throw it away like garbage? The child that happened to started to breathe oxygen, it was alive.

I'm not going to try and start a debate on where life begins. But if it begins at conception doesn't it begin before? So that every time you have a wet dream you just murdered your children? Or every time a woman has a period shouldn't she be charged with murder?

No you'll never stop murders, because you don't know who's a murderer. No one walks around with a sign over their head saying "I will kill someone eventually". But we do put murderers away so they can't kill again.

As far as rape, yes the baby did nothing wrong but that doesn't mean that a woman who's had a traumatizing event should have to carry that with her for 9 months while people stare at her and think "slut" because she's most likely not married.

[Spaz The Great]

She needs to be fucking shot.

Agreed.

So the 12 year old girl should be shot leaving her child without a mother?

That's ok but aborting a fetus is not?

Lol I think we were both being sarcastic.

I don't think anyone is "pro-abortion" that means that you think everyone should be aborted.

The way I see it it simply means that someone would choose abortion over adoption or keeping the baby whenever someone is debating over the three.

but an unborn child is a sacred life?

Every life is a sacred life, with the exception of those who try to infringe upon the lives of others in very negative ways, e.g. Hitler, murderers, abortion 'doctors', etc.

Yeah, because the choice should ALWAYS be keep it or adoption, right? Because, if you can't afford it, you can always just pawn it off on an over-crowded adoption agency. Their problem now, right?

Hey dumbass, "abortion doctors" don't infringe on the lives of others, considering how you agree to have an abortion. Otherwise, it's probably considered assault.

Christians try to infringe on the lives of others in negative ways, like trying to shove it down our throats that your way is the only right way. Does that mean I am free to murder any Christian who acts this way? Lovely reasoning, jackass.

I'd much rather see a baby put up for adoption. I can't stand the people who will say "Well I wasn't ready to be a parent" Shouldn't have had sex. There's oral sex, masturbation (alone or mutual) hell anal sex = no kids possible.

"Couldn't afford birth control" It's a lot cheaper than a kid. Or again, don't have sex. It's not like breathing no matter what people seem to act like. I've gone months without an orgasm. Does it suck, hell yes, but I'm still walking around.

That's exactly what I've been saying the whole time.

And the whole thing about keeping abortion legal because otherwise people would be doing it in back alleys and dying is absolute BS, because you know what? Their fucking fault. They choose to have a back alley abortion, it's their fault if they die, it's their fault they had unprotected sex.

It's like saying that we're never gonna keep people from murdering, so let's take every murderer and put them in a big hall where they can all go crazy and kill each other.

Is that right?

And just so you all know, when it comes to rape I'm mixed because in that case the mother did nothing wrong, but as always the baby didn't either.

Where does the murderer-hall comparison make any sense? Yes, that would be a grand idea. Let the murderers kill each other, and not us.

We don't have to protect every single living organism. Every life is sacred? So you mean every living thing is sacred then, right? Bet you never sprayed ants or smashed a roach right? Don't use paper products, that's a result of murder. Oh, and meat products, as well. Want to go extreme? You have fun with it.

[_Ray]

No I wouldn't say they are at all alike. Yes it's their fault for having unprotected sex, but that doesn't mean people should have to resort to dangerous and life risking things.

The had unprotected sex, the consequence that comes with it is a baby. As I've said, abortion is just a fucked up way to get a person who made a huge mistake out of trouble, at the expense of someone else.

Plus wouldn't you rather know that a child was killed before it had begun to have thoughts? When it's still the size of a golf ball rather than someone carry the child to term and punch a hole in it's head or just throw it away like garbage? The child that happened to started to breathe oxygen, it was alive.

But all the thoughts and influence on society it WOULD HAVE HAD for the 80 years after it will never happen.

As far as rape, yes the baby did nothing wrong but that doesn't mean that a woman who's had a traumatizing event should have to carry that with her for 9 months while people stare at her and think "slut" because she's most likely not married.

Which is exactly why I said I'm mixed on it. Both the woman and probably the baby will suffer, and neither of them are at fault.

Where does the murderer-hall comparison make any sense? Yes, that would be a grand idea. Let the murderers kill each other, and not us.

We don't have to protect every single living organism. Every life is sacred? So you mean every living thing is sacred then, right? Bet you never sprayed ants or smashed a roach right? Don't use paper products, that's a result of murder. Oh, and meat products, as well. Want to go extreme? You have fun with it.

Let me refine what I said. Every human life is sacred. And every other life is also worthy of consideration. In the bible it says that God gave us the creatures of Earth to use as we see fit (eating cows, cutting down trees, etc.) but not in an overly amount or abusive way.

And the point is that we're supposed to PREVENT murder.

And what do you think of that abortion story, Spaz?

Edited December 4, 2009 by Raybob