Nationalized Healthcare

[_Ray]

Vote above, and discuss here.

[topics split/merged]

[Bear]

The NHS is a great thing but it really needs to go back to the 80s where English nurses were the best in the world and hospitals were clean and everyone took pride in their work. Now its appalling to see what the hospitals are like, my Grandad got MRSA twice because it was dirty and no one really cared. He couldnt eat because he was laying down and they just put the food infront of him even though he was blind and couldn't see, also he had no legs so he couldn't push himself up.

[_Ray]

The NHS is a great thing but it really needs to go back to the 80s where English nurses were the best in the world and hospitals were clean and everyone took pride in their work. Now its appalling to see what the hospitals are like, my Grandad got MRSA twice because it was dirty and no one really cared. He couldnt eat because he was laying down and they just put the food infront of him even though he was blind and couldn't see, also he had no legs so he couldn't push himself up.

And that's exactly what it will be like here if our new Healthcare bill goes through.

[Spaz The Great]

You can't really say "bomb them all". It's not as if everyone in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, China and North Korea are terrorists or evil. Sure the governments may be evil, and lots of freedom-fighters and religious extremists may be terrorists, but you can't just bomb the entire countries without killing millions of innocent civilians. That would be evil.

That's what we did with Japan in World War 2, and brought a quick end to the war.

Had we not, I guarantee that lots more innocent civilians would have died from the effects of the continuing war.

And you know what else? The tax here is ridiculous.

I live in a moderate income family, and ~33% of my Dad's paycheck was taken out for taxes.

There's also money taken out for health insurance with most companies. That money would no longer be taken out, because it would be taken out with the tax. It's funny, only people in America scream about "socialized medicine" not working. Canada is doing fine with it, the UK seems to be fine with it, Europeans aren't complaining about it. Should I trust the opinion of one who's never experienced it, or those who are doing just fine with it?

[_Ray]

@ Spaz

Actually, just as much would be taken out, if not more.

The cost of our private healthcare would be gone, but lo and behold, there's the cost of still having to pay for our healthcare through additional taxes, plus having to pay part of everyone else's healthcare, again through yet more taxes.

[Gerard]

You say that like it's a bad thing or a secret side-effect of nationalised healthare. Yes, you have to pay tax instead of insurance. That's exactly how it works, and that's why it's good.

People who earn more pay more tax. So the rich are paying for the poor's healthcare. That way everyone can get the treatment they need, irrespective of their income. That's the only fair way of doing it. It's not as if the taxes are horrific - its still a small percentage of income. Imagine a fabulously rich millionaire - 20% of his income would pay for the healthcare of thousands of people.

As a result of it being nationalised, hospitals and doctors do NOT make a profit. They have a budget which they use to run. So no more moneygrabbing healthcare companies, you actually get what you pay for.

[_Ray]

You say that like it's a bad thing or a secret side-effect of nationalised healthare. Yes, you have to pay tax instead of insurance. That's exactly how it works, and that's why it's good.

People who earn more pay more tax. So the rich are paying for the poor's healthcare. That way everyone can get the treatment they need, irrespective of their income. That's the only fair way of doing it. It's not as if the taxes are horrific - its still a small percentage of income. Imagine a fabulously rich millionaire - 20% of his income would pay for the healthcare of thousands of people.

As a result of it being nationalised, hospitals and doctors do NOT make a profit. They have a budget which they use to run. So no more moneygrabbing healthcare companies, you actually get what you pay for.

But whether there are or aren't in your country, in this country, there are many people who are too lazy to buy healthcare, or hide a disease once they get it and then get healthcare right away. Some people are too lazy to work or buy healthcare, and so with nationalized healthcare we're paying for those who were too lazy to get it for themselves in the first place, but had plenty of money to do so.

Plus, it is estimated that under Barack Obama's Healthcare bill, >12% of the country will remain without healthcare.

[Thomas.]

I voted for "It works fine but isn't the standard we expect". I don't really think the hospitals are up to scratch, the employees are fine but the NHS hospitals are filthy. Every fortnight we get some sort of news report about a dirty hospital and how someone's been infected by it. But apart from that it's fine.

In my town, the local hospital used to have an Accident & Emergency system but that was moved 15 miles away to Stirling. I was distraught a few years ago about it, if I were to have a broken neck or something I would want to go to the Falkirk hospital which is far closer than the Stirling one. This is where the NHS's bad organisation comes into play. Luckily a new hospital is due to be completed in Falkirk next year.

What I like about the Nationalised Healthcare system is the free prescriptions when and if you need it. You could simply go to your doctor's and ask for a subscription for a flu and all you have to do is go to a pharmacy and get the drugs.

[Mpilk901]

I don't really think the hospitals are up to scratch, the employees are fine but the NHS hospitals are filthy. Every fortnight we get some sort of news report about a dirty hospital and how someone's been infected by it.

Exactly! Right now the UK has a quasi-privatisation of the NHS which I think is ridiculous as it leads to trying to be more cost efficient rather than focusing on the healthcare side. For example, money spent on cleaning may be reduced to save funds but then all that does is makes a hospital a more un-hygienic place which leads to the MRSA bug and possible infections.

[Bear]

All of the UK should have free prescriptions, its not fair that Scotland and Wales do but England doesn't (unless you have cancer, children, constant health problem and if your on benefits). Its not fair asthma doesn't come into that.

When the NHS was first brought in it worked perfectly, its only in the last decade that its gone to shit. My Mum is a nurse and she said when she trained they cleaned the ward and were very proud of the standards they kept it to. Now however its all about targets and they have cleaners who are from private companies who don't care. Also British nurses aren't trained how they used to be, before it was mainly pratical (80%) and 20% theory and they were on the wards very early on. Now its a degree which is 50/50 now and they don't go onto the wards until year 2. Also british nurses don't get the jobs as the NHS hire foriegn nurses as they are much cheaper. Employees don't have the pride they used to have and don't have much consideration for the patients. My Grandad had to have maggot treatment on his leg, in the night he used the call button because the bandage fell apart. They ignored him, in the end he spent the entire night in bed filled with maggots.

[Gerard]

Free prescriptions should exist - it's just not something that should depend on how much money you have. The money to pay for that should come out of the unnecessary benefits that are currently being given to people who are technically "disabled" but able to work, and those who choose not to work or jobseek. Same with free education.

[_Ray]

And to be honest with you all, I can see why you might think Nationalized Healthcare is a good idea, but here's 2 things for the USA.

1) 12% of the country would still be left without insurance.

2) That's breaking the very basis of what our country was founded on, and how we came from some tiny colony of Britain to the World's Biggest Superpower.

[Bear]

To be fair Britian's colonies has never been small. Through the empire we once owned a 1/4 of the world.

[_Ray]

To be fair Britian's colonies has never been small. Through the empire we once owned a 1/4 of the world.

Not all of their colonies together, but the USA in 1770 was about as well known as Latvia is now. (Maybe most of the UK know it but here very little people do)

[Thomas.]

I know Latvia quite well. The USA might not have been as well known back then than it is now but much like the British and French empires, it's status will fall within the next 20 to 50 years when countries like China, Japan and Russia rise.

So what if it is breaking the very basis of what America was based upon, if the law of the USA, or w/e it is, didn't change at all during the 300 years of its existence then the US wouldn't have as much human rights as it does now. We're living in an ever changing world.

As for the insurance part of your point, you won't need insurance at all if the health system gets nationalised - well only if that country follows what the UK has done.

[Bear]

France's health care is very good, most of the bills are repayed from the goverment and their hospitals are very clean. I just think health insurance is a bad idea as there are some people who are simply too poor to afford it, imagine being told your going to die not because the illness is terminal but because you can't afford it. What does the USA do if there are people too poor for health insurance?