Connor Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) I hate religion, it's probably caused more deaths than anything else. Religious people need to understand that you must enjoy life, because it's the only one you're going to get, if that includes being gay, then who the fuck is to say that's wrong? Let them go to 'hell' if they're so bad? That's their problem, why interfere? Edited February 21, 2009 by Twisted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveplayer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 @ Twisted: You said Atheists aren't flawed because a book doesn't tell them to kill :/ I don't think you can really say Atheists are flawed, they don't kill people because a book tells them to.What flaws do Atheists have? Anyway, the religious book doesn't tell anyone to kill. It is the persons own warped view of the words. So unless the book actually says, "Kill him now!", that is just your gross oversimplification of the subject. I gave you examples of flaws with Atheists. Every one is human, regardless of beliefs, and humans are flawed. Atheists aren't perfect. Gerard never said that. He brought up that gay people were being persecuted in Christian countries, then said no one had brought the Quran into it. I posted a list of Islamic countries where they are being persecuted worse than in Christians countries. The Quran says being gay is unnatural and this is how they punish it in Islamic countries. You sit here complaining that specifically "Christians" are holding back gays. Atleast we don't behead them in public for showing they love someone. @ Spaz: Atleast the topic of homosexuality is on the ballot in your country. Seeing as being gay isn't a choice, imagine being born into a world that wants to behead you for who you are. So America's treatment of gays somewhat pails in comparison to that of some Muslim countries. @ Gerard: No I'm not using that as proof of Christian tolerance. I'm saying that around the world, people are being denied their right to life rather than just their right to sharing a last name and benefits. It may not be relevant to the certain situations you've been discussing, but in retrospect, you have more rights than those in other parts of the world. I'm all for letting gays do what they want. I have a Religion, and I more than understand I must enjoy life. The Religious people Twisted is constantly referring to are the gung-ho fanatical ones. There are a lot of fanatical people in the world, but NOT all are Religious and NOT all Religious people are fanatical. I myself and hundreds of other people I now who are Religious don't walk around imposing Religion on people. We don't persecute them for who they are, that is incredibly close minded. You seem to be persecuting ALL Religious people for the sole fact that they have Religion. Not everyone who has Religion is the way you picture them. A vocal minority gives a bad name to a silent majority. The same way the majority of Muslims aren't and don't want to be thought of as terrorists, the majority of Christians aren't intolerant bigots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 A vocal minority gives a bad name to a silent majority. The same way the majority of Muslims aren't and don't want to be thought of as terrorists, the majority of Christians aren't intolerant bigots. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveplayer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 LOL, finally, something we agree on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Fuckkkk sakeeee... When I said that, I meant it as, you speaking for christians, that Atheists have got no flaws compared to christians. Even if the book isn't meant that way, what I'm saying is it gets people confused enough to kill someone. It's just a load of unnesesary trouble. And I'm talking about the religious people who are against all the gay stuff, hence why I'm saying it in this topic. Edited February 21, 2009 by Twisted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty-T Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Marriage in general is a pretty weird thing. But I totally think gay people should be able to get married. In fifty years, we'll look back to today and say, "What a strange thing that gay people couldn't get married.", just like when we look back at the days of slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz The Great Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The subject of the Quran not being brought into it was referencing THIS topic. No one has brought it into THIS topic. And it shouldn't be on ballot. It shouldn't be an issue. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveplayer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 When I said that, I meant it as, ... Atheists have got no flaws compared to christians. Are you that conceded? You think because you're Atheist you're better than me? You come into this topic all the time and basically say everyone is equal and no one is better than anyone else. @ Spaz: No, it shouldn't be an issue to begin with, just like racism and interracial marriage 50 years ago. But what I meant with it being on the ballot is at least they are trying to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 What Twisted meant was that (in his view) there are no "flaws" (I assume prejudices etc) DUE to him being atheist. However there are flaws in some Christians BECAUSE of them being Christians. Obviously everyone has various flaws In other words, religion brings unreasonable additional prejudices and rules, Atheism does not. Religion adds additional beliefs to your own choices and decisions and interpretations of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz The Great Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 @ Spaz: No, it shouldn't be an issue to begin with, just like racism and interracial marriage 50 years ago. But what I meant with it being on the ballot is at least they are trying to do something about it. But that isn't the basis of this discussion. This is about whether gay marriage is right or wrong, whether it should be allowed or not, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) When I said that, I meant it as, ... Atheists have got no flaws compared to christians. Are you that conceded? You think because you're Atheist you're better than me? You come into this topic all the time and basically say everyone is equal and no one is better than anyone else. @ Spaz: No, it shouldn't be an issue to begin with, just like racism and interracial marriage 50 years ago. But what I meant with it being on the ballot is at least they are trying to do something about it. I never once said I was better than you, I'm just saying that Atheists have no flaws compared to christians, being that they do not kill people because a book 'confuses them enough to make them kill people'. And of course I don't think everyone is equal, but I don't see myself very high in the list of people who are good, but yeah, I actually never even said that once, you just assumed that because I'm not a gay basher. Edited February 21, 2009 by Twisted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) So wait... You don't think they would make bad parents... But they still shouldn't be allowed to adopt? So you're saying you just want to take away rights just for the hell of it? I already explained my reasons a few pages back. You don't make any sense and/or are a very closed minded individual.I don't think ANYONE should have their rights taken away based on their sexual orientation. I don't think a homosexual couple should not be able to display PDA just because they are gay. I don't think any homosexual should be stripped of anything a straight person can do at all. Some of you act as if homosexuals are scum. That's a pretty pathetic and disgusting attitude. I'm pretty sure you'd be upset if your rights were taken away just because of your sexuality or religion or whatnot. (Read reply above) EDIT: I like how you assume that I'm against homosexuals even though I've sided with homosexuals(Not actual people in this topic) countless times in this topic. Edited February 21, 2009 by Harwood Butcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz The Great Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 It actually depends where you go.Some places are more accepting of homosexuality than others. I think it stems from how religious the community is. I have to laugh at the idiots who think gays shouldn't adopt. I would be more inclined to send a kid off with two same gender parents who will provide a great life for them than some bastard parents who wont provide much for the kid in terms of love and such. Homosexuals are people, too. Just because they are gay doesn't mean they suddenly can't be good parents. My reasons for thinking gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt does not involve their parenting skills. In regards to that, I think gay couples could be just as good at parenting as any other kind of couple out there. This is all I could find. This post clearly states that you don't think they should be able to adopt, in the bold area. If you didn't think they shouldn't adopt, you wouldn't have reasons for thinking it((because well, that just doesn't make sense)). However, underlined you state that they would make good parents. Just as good as any other couple. This, does not, make sense. If they can make good parents, why shouldn't they be allowed to be parents? If you aren't against them, why do you think they shouldn't adopt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Can we stop arguing about arguing? And lets resume arguing about whether or not people should be restricted rights cuz they like teh cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveplayer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 When I said that, I meant it as, ... Atheists have got no flaws compared to christians. Are you that conceded? You think because you're Atheist you're better than me? You come into this topic all the time and basically say everyone is equal and no one is better than anyone else. @ Spaz: No, it shouldn't be an issue to begin with, just like racism and interracial marriage 50 years ago. But what I meant with it being on the ballot is at least they are trying to do something about it. I never once said I was better than you, I'm just saying that Atheists have no flaws compared to christians, being that they do not kill people because a book 'confuses them enough to make them kill people'. And of course I don't think everyone is equal, but I don't see myself very high in the list of people who are good, but yeah, I actually never even said that once, you just assumed that because I'm not a gay basher. No. Once again you are completely oversimplifying the situation. 'The book doesn't confuse them' into killing people. They don't feel confused, you assume they are confused because they see it differently than you do. They are twisting the words around to fit their own agendas, they aren't confused about it. You keep putting your foot in your mouth. You keep implying that you think you're better than me because you are Atheist and I am Christian. For one, it is hardly if ever the Christians warping the words of the Bible so that they feel comfortable going out into a crowded street or cafe and homicide bomb everyone in sight. Whether or not you 'directly' said you are better than me, saying Atheists have no flaws and Christians do is implying you think Atheists are perfect and better than Christians. Something without flaws, is considered perfect. By no means, is Atheism perfect. I assume you thought everyone was equal because you come in here saying gays should have the same rights as straight couples to get married. Implying that you feel there is no difference between gay and straight, that they should have equal rights to marry and adopt like straight couples. That is you projecting that you feel they are equal, that the only difference is who they are attracted to. For someone who accuses Christians of thinking they are better than everyone else, you are just going to show that no matter what your belief, you always think your own is better than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLlamaLlama Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I think he's saying that atheists have no flaws compared to Christians, because Atheists don't believe what Christians believe. As he believes Christianity is flawed, he has none of those flaws, because of his atheism. Amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) I never once said Atheists were perfect, they're just people who don't believe in religion/gawd so, they don't follow anything obviously, which means they have nothing to tell them to do things, which means if you're a good person, and an Atheist, you'd be without flaws. Stop trying to find every little things wrong with my posts, just accept that I DO NOT think I'm better than you, without flaws, nor do I think you're better than me, anything like that.. I never accused christians of thinking they're better than anyone else, stop making shit up. (And I'm starting to get pretty simple with these posts now, because there's just no point reasoning with an ignorant person like you) Edited February 22, 2009 by Twisted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) My reasons for thinking gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt does not involve their parenting skills. In regards to that, I think gay couples could be just as good at parenting as any other kind of couple out there. This is all I could find. This post clearly states that you don't think they should be able to adopt, in the bold area. If you didn't think they shouldn't adopt, you wouldn't have reasons for thinking it((because well, that just doesn't make sense)). However, underlined you state that they would make good parents. Just as good as any other couple. This, does not, make sense. If they can make good parents, why shouldn't they be allowed to be parents? If you aren't against them, why do you think they shouldn't adopt? Well the reason it doesn't make any sense is because you either don't remember or never read my previous post that explain my reasons. I didn't really want to repeat myself, but I guess I'm going to have to. I feel that gay couples have the same possible chance of being good parents as any other kind of couple out there. Although, just because they could be good parents doesn't necessarily mean they should be allowed to adopt. The reason I don't think they should be allowed to adopt is not based on them being homosexuals, but because of the effect their homosexuality could have on the children they adopt. Now depending on the way you look at it, it could mean it's because of their homosexuality or the sponge-like effect of the human brain. If the child of homosexual parents is exposed to homosexuality, there is a greater chance of them too becoming a homosexual. It really depends on how old the child is when they are adopted, how they're raised, what they're exposed, etc. Hypothetically, if this were to happen then that child won't grow up to reproduce. Then again, depending on the way you look at it, the child/children that could have been might have turned out to be the next Einstein or the next Hitler. As this spread worldwide then there is a possibility that the percent of homosexuals of our population would slowly shift, which could possibly cause problems thousands of years in the future. The idea is a little out there, but it's a possibility. Since the outcome could go either way, it brings the whole scenario down to a "Is the glass half empty or half full?" type of questions. Now don't get me wrong, I feel they should have the same rights as any other couple out there. I just feel that there could be risk, which is why I don't think they should, but again, it's not my life. I'm basically just putting my two cents in. There's really no point in trying to prove me wrong or anything because this is just a random thought I had a month or so ago that I don't necessarily stand by as much as some of my other views or beliefs, so I don't really care too much what you think of my opinion or what you think of me based on my opinion. Can we stop arguing about arguing? And lets resume arguing about whether or not people should be restricted rights cuz they like teh cock. Edited February 22, 2009 by Harwood Butcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveplayer Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I never once said Atheists were perfect, they're just people who don't believe in religion/gawd so, they don't follow anything obviously, which means they have nothing to tell them to do things, which means if you're a good person, and an Atheist, you'd be without flaws. Whether you're a good person or not you still have flaws. You keep saying, if you're an Atheist, you’d have no flaws. So if I was an equally good person as said Atheist and did everything exactly the same, except I’m a Christian, I automatically have flaws? You still don’t understand. If something is without flaws, flawless if you will, it is considered perfect. Atheism is far from perfect yet you keep saying being an Atheist means you have no flaws, making you flawless or perfect. I never once said Atheists were perfect I'm just saying that Atheists have no flaws... No flaws = flawless = PERFECT :/ You continually contradict yourself. Stop trying to find every little things wrong with my posts, just accept that I DO NOT think I'm better than you, without flaws, nor do I think you're better than me, anything like that.. I'm not trying to find little things wrong with your posts, they are sticking right out for me to see. The fact you don’t know enough about the issues sticks out like dogs balls. Simply putting complex, sensitive problems within the middle east and around the world down to 'a confusing book'. Comparing two things and saying one is flawless and the other is flawed, you are saying one is better than the other. Neither is better, there is only the one which is best FOR YOU. I never accused christians of thinking they're better than anyone else, stop making shit up.VIf I was gay, who the fuck is any christian to tell me that I can't marry someone of the same gender because it's against THEIR religion? Right there you are insinuating that Christians think they are better and know better than everyone else. Not every Christian goes around imposing their faith on others. You never hear about the quiet Christians who genuinely keep to themselves and are brought happiness daily by their faith. (And I'm starting to get pretty simple with these posts now, because there's just no point reasoning with an ignorant person like you) You are getting simple with your answers because you have nothing left to argue with and are resorting to calling me ignorant. You're the one who can't understand his own words. You're the one who doesn't have a proper grasp on the problems going on in the world and simply puts it down to "book confusion". To me, you're the the one who's ignorant of his own ignorance. Lets just leave it at this. This isn't helping the topic, truce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) I never once said Atheists were perfect I'm just saying that Atheists have no flaws... Don't you dare fucking twist my words again... I never accused christians of thinking they're better than anyone else, stop making shit up.VIf I was gay, who the fuck is any christian to tell me that I can't marry someone of the same gender because it's against THEIR religion? Right there you are insinuating that Christians think they are better and know better than everyone else. Not every Christian goes around imposing their faith on others. You never hear about the quiet Christians who genuinely keep to themselves and are brought happiness daily by their faith. I wasn't talking about every christian, I was talking about any that likes to tell me what I can and can't do, which is why I said it in this topic. I never insinuated anything, I'm just saying that what makes them have to force their ideas and beliefs onto other people, and I'm saying this about christians who are objecting and saying it's all bad because of their religion. I've gotten to the point where I have to be so fucking clear in what I say, just so I don't get my words twisted. I'm not ignorant, I just prefer not to listen to all the bullshit that people are saying in here. Edited February 22, 2009 by Twisted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Guys I told you already. Stop arguing about arguing. Stop trying to twist what other people say. Connor said atheists have no flaws THAT come from a book. They make their own decisions. He's implying that if you follow the aformentioned religious texts, you automatically inherit the flaws from those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Sorry Gerard... I just didn't like leaving someone to make out I've said something I haven't, that was my last post. So, back on topic, any gay christians here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Or any anti-choice agnostics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 LOL, that video...is epic... True though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well I've been starting to think about the initial reason for this topic, "Gay Marriage". Marriage is basically receiving documentation that says that two people are united as one, as a couple. If homosexuals don't care what other people think about their sexual orientation then why does it matter whether or not their relationship is placed into a document stating that they are partners? Do they really need a document to tell them that they're partners? Any kind of point for gays getting married is starting to slip away in my mind. Straight couples usually get married because of their religious beliefs and if gays want to get married based off of their religious beliefs then there should be no problem with them getting married provided that their religion does not exclude gay marriage. If their religion excludes gay marriage then I don't see the reason for them wanting to be apart of a religion that excludes their way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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