CroScorpion Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 or your girlfriend leaves you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvi Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I don't personally smoke, I wish that was true of the people in the pub though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Space is not nothingness, it contains matter therefore it contains something. The fundamental difference between ordinary space inside the universe and outside is on average about 3 particles. It's a fundamental difference, space isn't empty, it's what's outside the universe (and thus outside space) which is empty. The end of the universe is merely the edge of matter, as light travels (and other matter) outwards, its very prescence is expanding the universe. You may want to imagine the universe as a gas spreading out in vacuum, the end of the gas is spreading out, and outside the gas is nothing, therefore as the gas spreads out, what can be construed as the gas is essentially expanding. Hope this clears things up That still doesn't answer my question. Where does the universe end or better yet, where does the "nothingness" end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvi Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Yes actually it does, there is no definite barrier or wall at the end of the universe, it's just particles and waves spreading on outwards filling the void beyond the universe. The edge of the universe is simply the point at which there no longer is matter or vice versa. Pragmatically the exact position of the edge of the universe is unknown since it's so far away that we can't gain accurate readings and also by the very nature of finding accurately how big something is, you need to be outside it. My example of expanding gas is probably the best way to think of it. It might be of interest to you to know that many gas giants such as Jupiter don't actually have a definite boundary of the core, they go in a gradient from vacuum to gas to liquid to solid as the gravity and pressure increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) Yes actually it does, there is no definite barrier or wall at the end of the universe, it's just particles and waves spreading on outwards filling the void beyond the universe. The edge of the universe is simply the point at which there no longer is matter or vice versa. Pragmatically the exact position of the edge of the universe is unknown since it's so far away that we can't gain accurate readings and also by the very nature of finding accurately how big something is, you need to be outside it. My example of expanding gas is probably the best way to think of it. It might be of interest to you to know that many gas giants such as Jupiter don't actually have a definite boundary of the core, they go in a gradient from vacuum to gas to liquid to solid as the gravity and pressure increases. Try reading my question again. That still doesn't answer my question. Where does the universe end or better yet, where does the "nothingness" end? and if we have to be out of something in order to get its size...how do we know the size of our own galaxy? We're in it. Edited February 28, 2007 by Original GTA Master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisman Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Nothingness doesn't have an end. Imagine nothingness stopped at a wall. What would be beyond that wall? Nothingness which stops at a wall etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvi Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Thank you Chrisman, thus my point is proved. The only place nothingness ends is at the end of the universe, therefore your two questions are actually the same OGTAM. And I said in order to accurately find out the size of an object. And technically we don't know the size of the universe, and even if we did it would be inaccurate the moment you read the figure as the universe (and thus galaxies) are expanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Thank you Chrisman, thus my point is proved. The only place nothingness ends is at the end of the universe, therefore your two questions are actually the same OGTAM. And I said in order to accurately find out the size of an object. And technically we don't know the size of the universe, and even if we did it would be inaccurate the moment you read the figure as the universe (and thus galaxies) are expanding. Everything has to have an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisman Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Yes, but this is nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroScorpion Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Maybe the universe is like earth if you go from one spot straight forward you will come back on the same spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAPlayer Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I don't think humans should think about the galaxy and everything... It's like ants are trying to figure out what in the hell we are for something? I mean... We should take it easy and live here, relaxing and while we live try to have some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvi Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 You\'re right OGTAM, everything does have to have an end and it does. I\'ve already said where that is, as Chrisman pointed out that\'s not true of nothing which by its very nature doesn\'t require an end. Oh and CroScorpion, if you go straight forward you\'d leave Earth at a tangent and go out the galazy then resultantly out the universe into nothing. If however you go in a circle round the earth then of course you\'ll come back to the same point (you went in a circle!) And according to your logic GTAPlayer, the human race would still be cowering in fear in caves from all the predators outside. You\'re right OGTAM, everything does have to have an end and it does. I\'ve already said where that is, as Chrisman pointed out that\'s not true of nothing which by its very nature doesn\'t require an end. Oh and CroScorpion, if you go straight forward you\'d leave Earth at a tangent and go out the galazy then resultantly out the universe into nothing. If however you go in a circle round the earth then of course you\'ll come back to the same point (you went in a circle!) And according to your logic GTAPlayer, the human race would still be cowering in fear in caves from all the predators outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroScorpion Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Maybe, everything is possible, outside are safe home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAPlayer Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Man I'm getting headache just thinking about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 You\'re right OGTAM, everything does have to have an end and it does. I\'ve already said where that is, as Chrisman pointed out that\'s not true of nothing which by its very nature doesn\'t require an end. Oh and CroScorpion, if you go straight forward you\'d leave Earth at a tangent and go out the galazy then resultantly out the universe into nothing. If however you go in a circle round the earth then of course you\'ll come back to the same point (you went in a circle!) And according to your logic GTAPlayer, the human race would still be cowering in fear in caves from all the predators outside. No, you guys explained where the universe ends...not where the outside portions of the universe end...the completely empty space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisman Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Damn! You're thickheaded! Let me try make it as simple as possible. Let's take it one step further away from the universe. I doubt your brain would handle it, but I'll try. Outside the MULTIVERSE is nothingness, which is endless. Everything has to have an end, yes, but nothing doesn't have to have an end. "But that didn't answer my question" YES IT f***ING DID! If there is something outside the multiverse, then outside that something is nothingness. Now try to take that a few steps further if you have anything outside that something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 Wow you're being real nice in this debate dipshit, but nothingness is empty space, as in no matter at all. I was just asking you guys what you thought about it. Does it end? Does it continuously go on forever? Maybe it even has the cartoon effect, when you go from one dimension to another, you end up just coming back to the original one you were in. This isn't about who's right or who’s wrong...just a conversation. I'm sorry that it's that time of the month for you today, but try to keep your cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisman Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 I'm male. You were being very annoying, so I got frustrated and threw some bad words into my reply. You didn't like our answers and just said they didn't answer your questions, so I had to chop it into baby pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroScorpion Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Wow you're being real nice in this debate dipshit, but nothingness is empty space, as in no matter at all. I was just asking you guys what you thought about it. Does it end? Does it continuously go on forever? Maybe it even has the cartoon effect, when you go from one dimension to another, you end up just coming back to the original one you were in. This isn't about who's right or who’s wrong...just a conversation. I'm sorry that it's that time of the month for you today, but try to keep your cool. No, it's newer ends. Just like the sea in SA and VC and GTA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAPlayer Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 This kind of stuff makes ppl go crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvi Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 In theory, outside the universe there's nothing, so nothingness for infinity basically. Complete absence of everything, zero kelvin, zero light, zero particles per cubic metre. Nothing, until the universe expands into the void of nothingness and each metre at a time becomes something. All it takes is for one ray of light or one stray particle and that area is no longer nothingness because it has been touched by matter and thus is something. So everything is nothingness until the universe reaches it, thus the universe is expanding because light (and particles being propelled outward from the Big Bang) expands outwards from the universe into the void where it becomes more universe. In effect, if I threw a baseball out the universe (ignoring FTL physics and the like here for practicality,) the path the baseball takes and the area the baseball takes up becomes more universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 Ok, yeah, I get all of that. I'm not stupid, but there is still empty space that continuously goes on forever that our universe is expanding into. That empty space is becoming part of our universe, not our universe creating more empty space then absorbing that space as it expands at that exact moment it is creating it...that would be highly unlikely. Your baseball example makes it seem as if the universe is surrounded in, lets just say, an elastic wrap and as soon as any matter presses up against it, that empty space (nothingness) is created then put into our universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvi Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 No, the baseball moves faster than the matter around it and thus at ftl, and moves into the existing nothingess with its (the baseballs) path extending the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 (edited) No, the baseball moves faster than the matter around it and thus at ftl, and moves into the existing nothingess with its (the baseballs) path extending the universe. Ok, so it's the universe expanding, but there still is "nothingness" outside of it which is empty space. We need a new subject. Edited March 5, 2007 by Original GTA Master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 does aliens count in here, i think there real, cos there has to be something out there beside us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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