Was September 11 all a conspiracy?

[Charger]

seriously this is the serious chat...at here we discuss the serious things that happened you and the world

normally does US has cuban gangsters? i really want to know because somebody said it

Yes there is Cuban Gangsters.

[Pandora]

Only the Pentagon gives out a lot, If you take a look at the damage, its to little to be a full plane. It actually does look like a Missile was the cause. But I don't like to think about stuff like that... It doesn't interest me.

...

There were dozens of eye witnesses. All saw a plane. Plane has gone missing. People on board have never come back.

Missiles go boom, they don't spread lots of fire. Missiles do not leave fuel traces and airplane pieces behind.

I think I made my point.

[azn]

Well, watching Loose Change there were many weird things going on when the plane hit the Pentagon

- A local gas station recorded the entire attack on the Pentagon, the FBI arrived in minutes to confiscate the tapes.

- They only revealed 5 frames of the attack which was not sufficient enough to prove a point.

- The hole made in the Pentagon not only was way too small for a Boeing Aircraft, but Donald Rumsfeld was on the other side of the Pentagon, and yet he was safe in his office after the attack, nor did the explosion even make it half way through the Pentagon.

- The Aircraft hit 5 light poles and managed to keep itself steady. An aircraft crash a few days after the 9/11 because it hit one light pole

- There was a lack of debree (or however you spell it) at the crash site

[Red_91]

The point of going into Iraq was to remove a dangerous dictator, which was a successful operation. Troops remain in Iraq to train the Iraqi government/army incase terrorists try to take over when the troops leave.

Incorrect they did go into Iraq for the oil, they (america) actually helped Sadam a few years back but they needed oil and as we all know Iraq has the second biggest supply in the world. For me the war was to get oil and thats it. The American soldiers could have left years ago but there still there getting the oil.

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As for 9/11, call me a crazy conspiracy person and what have ya. But I seriously believe Bush had a part in the 9/11 attacks, his family had links with the Bin Ladens and everything doesn't add up. The way the media has (in my eyes) fooled people (myself included at the beginning) that 9/11 was solesly done by Bin Laden and the terrorists is wrong.

Bush needed an excuse to have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because he wanted control and power in the east so he could get the oil. I read somewhere that if Bush didn't go to war with Iraq, America would have lose Billions because they were in desperate need of oil.

I am not denying that Bin Laden done the whole thing, I just think he had help from Bush.

EDIT

Im not trying to convince people that it was a conspiracy etc. Just letting my views known to the topic starter.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Red Devil

[Connor]

The point of going into Iraq was to remove a dangerous dictator, which was a successful operation. Troops remain in Iraq to train the Iraqi government/army incase terrorists try to take over when the troops leave.

Incorrect they did go into Iraq for the oil, they (america) actually helped Sadam a few years back but they needed oil and as we all know Iraq has the second biggest supply in the world. For me the war was to get oil and thats it. The American soldiers could have left years ago but there still there getting the oil.

________________________________________________________________________________

____________________

As for 9/11, call me a crazy conspiracy person and what have ya. But I seriously believe Bush had a part in the 9/11 attacks, his family had links with the Bin Ladens and everything doesn't add up. The way the media has (in my eyes) fooled people (myself included at the beginning) that 9/11 was solesly done by Bin Laden and the terrorists is wrong.

Bush needed an excuse to have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because he wanted control and power in the east so he could get the oil. I read somewhere that if Bush didn't go to war with Iraq, America would have lose Billions because they were in desperate need of oil.

I am not denying that Bin Laden done the whole thing, I just think he had help from Bush.

EDIT

Im not trying to convince people that it was a conspiracy etc. Just letting my views known to the topic starter.

Bush already had an excuse, removing a very bad leader from power.

[TheGunslinger]

george bush may be an idiot, but i dont think hes that cold blooded enough to order an attack on thousands of innocent people, just for an excuse to invade iraq. and besides, 911 attacks had nothing to do with iraq or saddam hussein. we invaded iraq because we thought they had WMDs and to remove a dictator from power

[Red_91]

Bush already had an excuse, removing a very bad leader from power.

Yeah I know his excuse was Saddam but America (his father actually) helped Saddam when he was at war with Iran, and now Bush needs something from Iraq he makes an excuse that Saddam is the problem etc. I reckon if American troops are still in Iraq in the next five years we could have another Vietnam.

EDIT

Also what funny is that America also funded Afghanistan (mainly the Mujahadin (sp)) when they went to war with the Russians.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Red Devil

[Connor]

You guys are just deluded...

[Red_91]

george bush may be an idiot, but i dont think hes that cold blooded enough to order an attack on thousands of innocent people, just for an excuse to invade iraq. and besides, 911 attacks had nothing to do with iraq or saddam hussein. we invaded iraq because we thought they had WMDs and to remove a dictator from power

Not in my opinion, as I said before oil was the main reason not saddam, they nevver found no WMD at all, it was all a lie so they could take the oil.

You guys are just deluded...

Its just our opinions.

[Connor]

But seriously, you all just watch some BS video and believe it..

[Pandora]

As for 9/11, call me a crazy conspiracy person and what have ya. But I seriously believe Bush had a part in the 9/11 attacks, his family had links with the Bin Ladens and everything doesn't add up. The way the media has (in my eyes) fooled people (myself included at the beginning) that 9/11 was solesly done by Bin Laden and the terrorists is wrong.

Bin Laden had 52 brothers (and sisters?) and his dad ran a big company. Bush senior did business with Osama's dad. After his death Osama of course got a part of his money, which he used to form Al Qaeda. George Bush senior could have never known this.

Also what funny is that America also funded Afghanistan (mainly the Mujahadin (sp)) when they went to war with the Russians.

Same like when they supported Iraq in the war against Iran. Pick a side. In that case they thought the Russians were a bigger threat.

Other then that, this oil thing really is very exaggerated. Not saying that they didn't. But it really didn't help them as much as people claim.

[Urbanoutlaw]

Incorrect they did go into Iraq for the oil, they (america) actually helped Sadam a few years back but they needed oil and as we all know Iraq has the second biggest supply in the world. For me the war was to get oil and thats it. The American soldiers could have left years ago but there still there getting the oil.

Really? If we are supposed to have all that Iraqi oil, then why Am I still paying $3 a gallon at the pumps (triple over last

few years). You don't live here, so I'll cut you a little slack.

Before OPEC decided to cut production (specifically to raise the price of crude oil) Gas was around $1 a gallon. Americans

had more money to spend on things like video games, microwaves & BMWs. Gas has tripled in recent years & caused a

round of inflation because everything we use here gets transported at one point or another. The increased cost of transport

& energy costs are passed on to the consumer who now has to pick between the aforementioned luxuries & necessities like

heat or gas for a car to get 10-20 miles to work (not all public transportation runs 24 hours a day, may or may not get you

to your job. This time of year, it's too cold to walk very far). Since we're not buying as much, it will eventually affect the

countries where the imported goods are bought.

OPEC didn't just screw the US, they got everybody, just not as quickly. If Bush DID have control of the Iraqi oil supply

& Americans in general found out, he'd literally be crucified. Instead of looking for ways to blame Bush, be pissed off

at OPEC.

US history w/ Saddam Hussein - Yes, at one time the US & Iraq WERE allies, although I think it was during the Reagan

administration. The enemy of my enemy logic & at the time Iran was the enemy of both Iraq & the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

Hope that clears up a few things.

PS: Full point to Jace, either you pay attention in school or know how to use your search bar.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Urbanoutlaw

[Red_91]

But seriously, you all just watch some BS video and believe it..

I could say the same thing about everyone else and how they believe the media and how they portray the story, again I will say I am not trying to change peoples views.

Bin Laden had 52 brothers (and sisters?) and his dad ran a big company. Bush senior did business with Osama's dad. After his death Osama of course got a part of his money, which he used to form Al Qaeda. George Bush senior could have never known this.

Also what funny is that America also funded Afghanistan (mainly the Mujahadin (sp)) when they went to war with the Russians.

Same like when they supported Iraq in the war against Iran. Pick a side. In that case they thought the Russians were a bigger threat.

Other then that, this oil thing really is very exaggerated. Not saying that they didn't. But it really didn't help them as much as people claim.

I understand where you're coming from but I dont think the oil thing is exaggerated, everyone needs oil and America were/are going to lose out if they didn't get some reserves to keep the country going ok for longer. I think America would have probably went to war with the Saudi's if they could but thye own 7% of America so they could not do that they went to Iraq.

Really? If we are supposed to have all that Iraqi oil, then why Am I still paying $3 a gallon at the pumps (triple over last

few years). You don't live here, so I'll cut you a little slack.

Before OPEC decided to cut production (specifically to raise the price of crude oil) Gas was around $1 a gallon. Americans

had more money to spend on things like video games, microwaves & BMWs. Gas has tripled in recent years & caused a

round of inflation because everything we use here gets transported at one point or another. The increased cost of transport

& energy costs are passed on to the consumer who now has to pick between the aforementioned luxuries & necessities like

heat or gas for a car to get 10-20 miles to work (not all public transportation runs 24 hours a day, may or may not get you

to your job. This time of year, it's too cold to walk very far). Since we're not buying as much, it will eventually affect the

countries where the imported goods are bought.

OPEC didn't just screw the US, they got everybody, just not as quickly. If Bush DID have control of the Iraqi oil supply

& Americans in general found out, he'd literally be crucified. Instead of looking for ways to blame Bush, be pissed off

at OPEC.

US history w/ Saddam Hussein - Yes, at one time the US & Iraq WERE allies, although I think it was during the Reagan

administration. The enemy of my enemy logic & at the time Iran was the enemy of both Iraq & the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

Hope that clears up a few things.

PS: Full point to Jace, either you pay attention in school or know how to use your search bar.

Listen oil is always going to be expensive from now on, its expensive everywhere, even in poor countries. In Pakistan its 300 rupees/gallon which is about $6 so America isn't that bad.

Again Bush did take oil from Iraw and is probably still doing so, but because their the most powerful in the world, no one will stand upto them. Russians will probably soon and the Iranians have and look whats happening to them.

Fact is fact America went to ware with Iraq against the UNs reluctancy and against the UN vote. They broke rules but didn't get sanctions.

[Pandora]

Again Bush did take oil from Iraw and is probably still doing so, but because their the most powerful in the world, no one will stand upto them. Russians will probably soon and the Iranians have and look whats happening to them.

Russians have loads of gas. They've got nothing to worry about for now. The Iranians.. they aren't really standing up to the US cause of the oil. They sort of just want every single person in the US and Israel dead. Perhaps as state they don't, but the people who are 'standing up' do.

I think America would have probably went to war with the Saudi's if they could but thye own 7% of America so they could not do that they went to Iraq.

They'd be really, really stupid to attack SA. They didn't bomb/kill/execute Osama when they had the chance because one of the Saudi prince's where with him (so he'd die too) making their relationship with SA as good as mine with the majority of my classmates. SA means quite a lot to the US, and vice-versa. Now it's rather hard to explain it in words, but I think most you know what I mean.

I could say the same thing about everyone else and how they believe the media and how they portray the story,

I for one always try to find fault with what the media says. Trying to find their mistakes and lies. I'd rather have sources, the actual findings and reason it out myself. I've seen 9/11 live on TV (no idea how yough I was. Something like 8.) and I've never questioned it being 'real'. Real is the sense of it actually being an attack. Then this conspiracy thing came along. Every single point of that Dylan guy has a flaw and a counter-argument. Counter-arguments that are scientific and based on simple physic laws.

And just by using comon-sense I think it's highly-unlickely that Bush could get hundreds of people to do such a job without anyone betraying him, get people to commit suicide and hijack planes, get the Navy to fire of a misile aimed at the Pentagon and get aircraft debris spread on the field in front of the Pentagon as soon as the missle strikes and also hidding that other missing aircraft that supposedly struck the Pentagon somewhere without anyone knowing and getting all the passengers killed or locked up. Not to forget, fake security tapes of the 'terrorists' entering the airport and them transmitting some messages when they would have hijacked the plane.

Having those same people to follow flying school a few months before 9/11. Coincidence? All of them coming to the US and suddenly wanting to learn how to fly, all board the planes involved and with that get involved into Bush's plan?

Possible, but highly unlikely. There's a bigger chance of 4 girls tomorrow coming to my door, begging me to mary them then that everything was a big plot set up by George W. Bush.

@UO: Thanks For some strange reason I felt like getting after everything 9/11 related (mainly from Al Qaeda's side) somewhere in September, so I went through everything I could find (and what's understandible for my age). It's somewhat facinating. Just knowing how it happend. I think, if more people (who are sane) would actually just try the research some stuff themselves they'd be able to put 2 and 2 together and understanding that it is possible for a jet to bring down a tower. After all, it's still some man-made object. It wasn't god who created the towers or something. It's just a tower, and the laws of physics still apply to it, even for the WTC.

Oh, and this is nothing personal. Just in-case someone thinks I'm trying to be some old twat. I'm just showing and explaining my view-point.

[Red_91]

I am not trying to say Bush single handedly done the twin towers, I am just saying he helped with the attacks, did you know he could have sent an aircraft to blow up the second plane but he didn't. When he was informed 'the nation is under attack' he was in a chool reading a childrens book and didn't do anything fo rlike half an hour. Everything just doesn't add upto for me.

Bin Laden is a dangerous man, I am not denying it, I just do not believe at the time (when al-qaeda) weren't big that he could have done something so big like this all by himself, I heard lots of stupid rumours byt the media at the time such 'they were planning this for years' etc. All in all I think he got help.

[hunter88888]

Well sorry...It just seems odd that an explosion of aircraft fuel can bring a 110-storey skyscraper down...

That's cuz it (the skyscraper) was made in USA.

@Red Devil: Bin-Ladden comes from a very very rich family. He could've totally done it.

[Connor]

What sources do you people get your information from then?

[Pandora]

Bin Laden is a dangerous man, I am not denying it, I just do not believe at the time (when al-qaeda) weren't big that he could have done something so big like this all by himself, I heard lots of stupid rumours byt the media at the time such 'they were planning this for years' etc. All in all I think he got help.

Google "Ramzi Yousef". That's the guy who came up with the plane idea.

Transmitors were turned off. So then you'll have to go by radar, which will only show blips. Dozens of blips. They can't know which is the plane they won't, so blowing the plane up (there are still people inside.. so even if that happend, people will still hate Bush) isn't such an easy task as you seem to think.

Bin Laden inherited something like 35 million from his dad. Speculations. We don't know for certain.

What sources do you people get your information from then?

Basic laws of physics, video footage and the ability to reason stuff.

And lots of background knowledge.. Facts. Things that we know really are so.

[Red_91]

Can't be bothered right now goggling stuff, I dont think I can ever be persuaded anything different about the 9/11 attacks. There are some people think its a conspiracy and some think that it isn't.

[Urbanoutlaw]

That's cuz it (the skyscraper) was made in USA.

You want to blame the Japanese Architect who designed the towers while you're at it? Quit w/ the bashing, it's offensive

& you can do better than that.

RD - Bush is PROBABLY taking oil from Iraq? Do you have a reliable source or has your science teacher been going off

topic in class again? Again, if Bush took the oil, WHY AM I STILL PAYING THESE HIGH PRICES!?! Where is it? Jace was

dead on when he pointed out that a conspiracy like this couldn't work because of the number of people it would take. Back

stabbing & betrayal are almost guaranteed & someone would take the opportunity to gain from taking down Bush, politically

or financially. If he had direct control of the oil, he wouldn't be able to keep it a secret for long.

I see this a lot in subjects like this, kids halfway around the world "think" this, have their "opinion" on that, but few take

the time to find any real facts. This whole topic is based on a bunch of YouTube videos.

[Pandora]

Ok...

is a Kuwaiti of mixed Pakistani and Palestinian descent who was one of the planners of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. He was arrested at an al-Qaeda safe house in Islamabad, Pakistan in 1995 and was extradited to the United States. He was tried in New York City in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York and along with two co-conspirators was convicted of planning the Oplan Bojinka plot. Yousef stated, "Yes, I am a terrorist, and proud of it as long as it is against the U.S. government."[4] He was sentenced to life in prison without parole. Yousef's uncle is Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, a senior al-Qaeda member.

That guy came up with the plane idea.

"Yes, I am a terrorist, and proud of it as long as it is against the U.S. government."

That's pretty hard evidence on it's own in my opinion.

[Urbanoutlaw]

Obviously Jace, you can excuse yourself from my previous rants. Some of the rest of you could learn something from

following his example (get facts, not something of some obscure opinion blog).

Have a Coke (or Pepsi if you prefer) & enjoy the show.

[Red_91]

That's cuz it (the skyscraper) was made in USA.

You want to blame the Japanese Architect who designed the towers while you're at it? Quit w/ the bashing, it's offensive

& you can do better than that.

RD - Bush is PROBABLY taking oil from Iraq? Do you have a reliable source or has your science teacher been going off

topic in class again? Again, if Bush took the oil, WHY AM I STILL PAYING THESE HIGH PRICES!?! Where is it? Jace was

dead on when he pointed out that a conspiracy like this couldn't work because of the number of people it would take. Back

stabbing & betrayal are almost guaranteed & someone would take the opportunity to gain from taking down Bush, politically

or financially. If he had direct control of the oil, he wouldn't be able to keep it a secret for long.

I see this a lot in subjects like this, kids halfway around the world "think" this, have their "opinion" on that, but few take

the time to find any real facts. This whole topic is based on a bunch of YouTube videos.

Fomr now on everywhere in the world oil is high, and I mean everywhere, America is just stocking up for the most oil getting it for Iraq so when the other countries run out they will have spare. I can't get you a link at the moment (I have a vomit bug) but there was things such as the 'food for oil' programme, this was just an excuse to get oil.

[Urbanoutlaw]

Food for oil? You mean this UN PROGRAM to help the Iraqi people in light of UN sanctions? You still have not

answered the question of where all this oil is being stored.

http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/rese.../spr-facts.html

From now on, yes, fossil fuels will be more expensive. That's the direct work of OPEC.

Get better & do some research (legitimate sources).

[Red_91]

Listen man, I dont have a specific answer for everything. The 'food for oil' was used in Iraq but notice how Bill Clinton first came up with the idea then the used it when they went to war with Iraq.

The truth doesn't have to have support from the media etc. It doesn't have to be written down. I have looked at many facts such as the Twin Towers were designed to withstand planes and many other. These things get overlooked in the media.

I dont need legitimate sources, because really who is going to say publicily that Bush did the twin towers in, if someone like Blair said it there would have been a catastrophe or if someone close says something like this, neverknow we might have an assisination.

I have done my research and still believe Bush had a part in 9/11. I really cant be asked argueing as I dont think your opinions will change like mine.