>>GTA4 Wishlist<<

[Godfather]

Well.

Some kickass bikes.

Many more edges, rails and billboards to stunt on.

The story should be about, 5-6 times longer then the one in SA

More veichles

SNOW

Snowmobiles

etc.

I cant describe what i want in next GTA.

[K9 Krew]

I think one of the most important aspects of GTA 4 are the small things. How is R* going to innovate, going to keep GTA fresh? Creating an immersive, realistic(yet probably still cartoony), life-life world. A breathing city, or state. Where peds(no clones btw) converse, have homes, have scripted days(wake up, exit house, go to work, eat, shop, go back home) and what not. Where you can see buildings being constructed in real time. Where your actions have a lasting impact. If R* can immerse us into their next location...they will have succeeded in creating a fresh GTA. In fact, Houser himself stated that being able to buy food/drinks at any vending machine in SA was something they were very proud of, the thing beginning of something they want to achieve.

Let's forget about the epic missions, crazy car chases, shootouts, and other huge things. Let's focus on the more subtle things in GTA 4. Because without subtle things like these, GTA 4 as a next gen title will feel empty.

-Car washes. That's right, car washes. We were promised this in SA, but didn't really get it.

-Impound. If you destroy a vehicle, or just leave one in the road, it should be towed(preferably real time, by an actual ped with a tow truck) and delivered to an impound, where you can purchase it back. This was sorta implented in SA, with the SF Police Station.

-More life-like peds. Give them lots of things to do. Have some of them do construction work. They should react in dynamic ways to your actions. Peds talking with each other(and stupid couples) appeared in VC and SA, so it's likely we'll see that done better.

-Enhaned interactibility with the enviroment. You should be able to finally f*cking climb ladders, push objects, switch things on and off, stuff like that. Maybe operate draw bridges, or other more larger objects. You should be able to cut grass with the lawnmower(maybe even have an R3 mission for it), stuff like that.

-Scripted actions. I mentioned this up there. Maybe keep it simple, have stuff like garbage trucks who come once every Sunday, take trash to the dump. Just have scripted things, so you feel as if you're not the only person really doing things. Peds enterting taxi cabs in the past games is an example of this. This way you feel things are happening in the world, no matter what you're doing.

-Desctructible enviroments. I want to be able to run down trees, blow up bridges, screw people's houses up, stuff like that. Maybe take down an entire construction site or something. The gas pumps/propane tanks in SA were the beginning of this.

-Huge, fully rendered interiors with peds. I want malls, but with all the stores open. With peds buying things, peds eating, peds talking in groups. Or maybe stadiums with actual audience members, purchasable food, bathrooms, things like that. Expand the malls from VC.

-Wildlife. Now by wildlife, I obviously don't mean silly puppies or kittens. I mean wild animals out in the countryside. Perhaps you could have hunting side-missions where you use tranq guns. Or maybe even fishing mini-games, where you could throw them back in the water. Integrate animals in somehow, yet keep violence seperate from them as best you can. We've already had animals in SA, so let's see what happens with GTA 4.

-Sports. Now, I don't really care for sports at all, but this would be great. Fully modeled arenas, stadiums, fields, where you can participate in complete games, and win cash, unlock player outfits, maybe even manage teams! Alternatively, you can f*ck up games by driving your car onto the field, for double the laughs. Then have about 20 pissed off baseball players flipping your car over and kicking your ass. We saw the beginnings of this in VC Stories, with the golf minigame.

Well, that's all I can think of right now. Some of this is inspired by ES IV:Oblivion. That game is the perfect example of a living, breathing world. Including NPC's who all have different looks, different names, and different lives. They sleep, eat, read, talk. This can easily be done with GTA 4.

I guess what I really want to say, is that after I'm finished taking down empires, assasinating crime kingpins, and taking over drug trade, I want to be able to explore the city/state and find a plethora of things to keep me busy, interested. Not just side missions like OTB or Beach Rescue, but simpler things to discover.

this was written by thedude5000 from gtaforums.com

--------------------

*G*T*A *K*I*N*G*

Guy Guard

[K9 Krew]

1. Climbing(Ladders)
   
2. Better Weather Effects
   
3. Real Damage To Cars(BulletHoles, Scratches)
   
4. A Train System To Travel On And They Must Able To Get Hi-Jaked
   
5. A Large City
   
6. I hope the next GTA focuses on the creation of gangs. I want to be able to name, choose weapons, cars, and turf that my gang has. And the more money/power a gang has, the more turf, weapons, and cars they can get. For example:
   $0-$50,000:1 district; fists, bats, and Colt .45s;
   $50,001-$500,000:1 district for each island; Uzis, Shotguns, fists, bats, and Colt .45s
   $500,001-$99,999,999: as much turf as you can sieze;AK-47s, M60s,Uzis, Shotguns, fists, bats, and Colt .45s
   Each gang could have a hideout (IE the Leone's have Salvatore"s Mansion, The Cartel have the Cartel Mansion, the Yakuza have Kenji's Casino, The Triads have the Fish Factory). Each hideout would have several things. There would be 4 markers. One would be in front of a garage. Pull up to it in your gang car and 2 cars filled with your gang members would come out and follow you. They will protect you. The second one will be the missions for the game. The third would be in front of a door. When you step into it 2 bodyguards will emerge and follow you. The fourth will become available if your gang is hated by another gang. It triggers "gang war" mode. From then on in, your members and the opposing gang members will invade each others turf until you both call it off or until too many casualties are suffered.
   Your hideout will have a certain amount of security, depending on how much money you have. Your members automatically patrol it, but you could also buy gates and walls to keep enemies out.
   There could also be businesses that you and enemy gangs could buy. If an enemy has a business you would like, you could chase them out with constant attacks on it.
   There could be a respect-o-meter as well. If a gang hated you, you might get ambushed when leaving your hideout (almost like the dead skunk in the trunk mission. A Sentinal parked across the street may try and run you down).
   Enemy gang leaders could be seen walking the streets and if you manage to kill them, their gang will hate you. You can frame another gang as well by driving their car of wearing their uniform. This will result in a gang war between the 2.
   Those are my only wishes. I know they are not very likely, or even possible, but I can still hope that some come true.
   
7. Accesible Prisons
   
8. Being able to pick up bricks' bottles etc. and using them to smack someone upside the head with them, like out of The Warriors.
   
9. Having To Do Jail Time
   
10. If You Are Swimming It Would Be Good To Be Eatan By A Shark.(Maybe)
    
11. Have A Drinking MiniGame To Build Up Your Tolerance Just LIke You Do With Muscle In San Andreas
    
12. Have Four Seasons In The Games Weather System
    
13. It would be cool to have one home base of operations that you could buy stuff for and build additions to as you got more money. You could start out in a shack and turn it into the Playboy Mansion.
    
14. The Abilty To Rob Shops You Could Do This IN Vice City But You Couldn't Do It In San Andreas
    
15. Inside prison-mini game (you have to escape if you get busted)
    

[osiem_zero_jeden_]

definitely a speedometer. but while you're at it, you might as well be able to get tickets from cops for speeding, then get one wanted star for obstruction of authority after making your getaway.

FOLLOW THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. when you crash your car a couple times, dont get it set on fire, bang it up a bit, then it either goes dead or die another way... BOOM

better multiplayer system. by that i mean that there should be no certain radius in which Player 2 can stay in without being disconnected. in english: like in SA, when you got too far from the other player, multiplaying is no longer available. instead, for example, in SA, lets say you both wanna go your separate ways. so one guy goes to LV to play some craps, while the other is jumping off of Mt. Chiliad.

a better selection of weapons. in SA, for the weapon tiers 1 and 2, the M4 assault rifle was repeated. and if i remember correctly, in VC, in a tower in Ft. Baxter, there was this awesome heavy weapon, and then again the uzi, which can only be bought or found lying around. you know, diversify the selection of weapons.

and to add to the one above, including "silent" weapons (e.x.: silencers, fiber wires, a syringe filled with a poison of deadly neurotoxin, etc.)

more interactions with peds, environment, etc. you should be able to interact more with peds, like "how's the weather?" interact more with environment: PURE ANNIHILATION. that includes vandalism, like tagging, shattering, etc. [this part is like one of R* other games: Bully. you could pick stuff up, throw at people, and the controls were a whole lot better than those of the GTA series.]

more(a.k.a. better, slightly tougher) missions. let me tell you. most of the VC missions were pretty tough at the beginning, unlike basically all of SA. by "better, slightly tougher," i mean that the first couple of missions start off with getting used to controls, easy stuff for novices, and as the game progresses, the missions' difficulties do too. also, missions like vigilante, ambulance, firefighting... what about rescue teams? let's say theres a cliff, people are stranded on an island, or something like that. go to the designated area, get in the designated blip and/or vehicle, and you're off.

more diverse weather/weather notifications. snow, storms, and (depending on the area) certain natural disasters. (e.x.: Florida, southeastern America-hurricanes, midwest-tornadoes, california, etc.-earthquakes, and so on.) i guess you can add notices of storms or weather from the radio and (possibly) television.

more vehicles. i can't say which ones exactly, but add more old-fashioned, modern, etc. cars, planes (mostly those of the military), military vehicles (camo), boats, and maybe a skateboard(?) or bike to the list.

smarter enemies. such as gangsters, assassins, and whatnot try to walk around, jump over, swim across obstacles to get to you. or, plainly, better AI. lets just say their high point in life is them standing over your dead character's body.

graphics. when you "modify" your car, you should PIMP it out. when you buy clothes, they're not just clothes; they're freakin BLING. like it was said before, dont wait too long to try on clothes, and dont let too much sun get in your eye. ive noticed that most of the games became a bit more darker. and although we can adjust the graphics of the tv set, no one really wants to.

i guess thats it, but i'll try to add some more on.

[DavidOrtiz34]

^ a lot of that sounds good, but something that I would really like to see is destructible environment. i.e. If you shot a rocket launcher at a building, the wall would be blown apart, or if you aim a flamethrower at a tree or house that it would ultimately catch on fire, and continue to catch other things on fire. Stuff like that would be cool. It would add more realism to the game. It would also make it more interesting.

[K9 Krew]

i think that there sohuld be alot more realism and that you should be able to make gangs

[TM™]

That would make the game more Like VCS, and how Vic Vance got his gang.

It does work out fine, But making your own gang, you have to have alot of stuff to do, even though that it may take a while, i think threw GTA4, you got to start at scratch (Like every Player has tostart in every GTA game), Then become what you call a gang leader, It may take time to finish your gang off.

I wouldn't say A-Speed-O-Meter is bad, it helps you out, to see whether your going really fast.

[tdog07029]

they shud hav different years for the cars like a 71' banshee, 86' banshee ect

[TM™]

Well that depends on what year the game is based...

[Kitsune Inferno]

definitely a speedometer. but while you're at it, you might as well be able to get tickets from cops for speeding, then get one wanted star for obstruction of authority after making your getaway.

FOLLOW THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. when you crash your car a couple times, dont get it set on fire, bang it up a bit, then it either goes dead or die another way... BOOM

better multiplayer system. by that i mean that there should be no certain radius in which Player 2 can stay in without being disconnected. in english: like in SA, when you got too far from the other player, multiplaying is no longer available. instead, for example, in SA, lets say you both wanna go your separate ways. so one guy goes to LV to play some craps, while the other is jumping off of Mt. Chiliad.

a better selection of weapons. in SA, for the weapon tiers 1 and 2, the M4 assault rifle was repeated. and if i remember correctly, in VC, in a tower in Ft. Baxter, there was this awesome heavy weapon, and then again the uzi, which can only be bought or found lying around. you know, diversify the selection of weapons.

and to add to the one above, including "silent" weapons (e.x.: silencers, fiber wires, a syringe filled with a poison of deadly neurotoxin, etc.)

more interactions with peds, environment, etc. you should be able to interact more with peds, like "how's the weather?" interact more with environment: PURE ANNIHILATION. that includes vandalism, like tagging, shattering, etc. [this part is like one of R* other games: Bully. you could pick stuff up, throw at people, and the controls were a whole lot better than those of the GTA series.]

more(a.k.a. better, slightly tougher) missions. let me tell you. most of the VC missions were pretty tough at the beginning, unlike basically all of SA. by "better, slightly tougher," i mean that the first couple of missions start off with getting used to controls, easy stuff for novices, and as the game progresses, the missions' difficulties do too. also, missions like vigilante, ambulance, firefighting... what about rescue teams? let's say theres a cliff, people are stranded on an island, or something like that. go to the designated area, get in the designated blip and/or vehicle, and you're off.

more diverse weather/weather notifications. snow, storms, and (depending on the area) certain natural disasters. (e.x.: Florida, southeastern America-hurricanes, midwest-tornadoes, california, etc.-earthquakes, and so on.) i guess you can add notices of storms or weather from the radio and (possibly) television.

more vehicles. i can't say which ones exactly, but add more old-fashioned, modern, etc. cars, planes (mostly those of the military), military vehicles (camo), boats, and maybe a skateboard(?) or bike to the list.

smarter enemies. such as gangsters, assassins, and whatnot try to walk around, jump over, swim across obstacles to get to you. or, plainly, better AI. lets just say their high point in life is them standing over your dead character's body.

graphics. when you "modify" your car, you should PIMP it out. when you buy clothes, they're not just clothes; they're freakin BLING. like it was said before, dont wait too long to try on clothes, and dont let too much sun get in your eye. ive noticed that most of the games became a bit more darker. and although we can adjust the graphics of the tv set, no one really wants to.

i guess thats it, but i'll try to add some more on.

1. NO SPEEDOMETER. Why do people want this piece of crap?

2. Laws of Physics: Maybe.

3. Multiplayer: Yeah.

4. Weapons: That's pretty much obvious.

5. Assassin weapons: That's actually not a bad idea.

6. Enviroment Interactions: I want that wall to go down after I hit it with a Linerunner.

7. Weather: I'd rather just stick to rain.

8. Vehicles: Again, obvious.

9. AI: Yeah, I'd like to see a *placeholder* bitch jump on my dead body after I killed thousands of his buddies.

10. Whatever the hell that was: Yeah, I think.

[Xaiver Leone]

what we really need is a mp3 player so we can walk around in a gun fight while rocking out to G&R welcome to the jungle

[rockstarrem]

That actually sounds like a good idea. Similar to Saint's Row where you can press start and choose a track, maybe you could by a MP3 player in the game somewhere. You could maybe bind it like a Car Radio station and a menu would pop up with all the audio tracks in your media section of the 360/PS3. Good idea!

[tdog07029]

i think ppl want the speedometer so they can tell which cars are the fastest

Edited December 11, 2006 by tdog07029

[Red_91]

Yeh I agree tdog though i think we will get similar features form scarface like calling the henchman for your car. Meeting up with people like the sandman. I dont know if this owuld owrk in GTA but maybe a first person rage mode after something like your balls meter goes up after killing people.

[Kitsune Inferno]

i think ppl want the speedometer so they can tell which cars are the fastest

So? Just go to the airport and time how long it takes for your car to reach the end of the runway. Speedometers are some of the most useless things you could put in a game.

[trashbat]

Some things I'd like to see, in a little detail...

Large scale movable objects - ships are the obvious ones, but maybe other stuff too. You need the right environment to put them in but in GTA:SA it was possibly doable. To go with that you should be able to sink/destroy them with some form of reasonable modelling. Edit: oh yeah, car ferries, transporter trains, that sort of thing.

Large scale structural damage. The difficulty with this one is how it fits in with the plot. Suppose you crash your ship into the Golden Gate style bridge in SA, and do it some serious damage. How and when does it get repaired? Along those lines is possible demolition, arson and terraforming, but it probably faces more practical gaming problems than it's worth.

Proper controllable train systems would be good, with signalling, points and other sets travelling around.

I thought some form of 'build your own vehicle' might be an idea. Think Tanktics, if you remember that! You could have sets of components, i.e. pick a base - tank/wheels/hovercraft, a body, and features like a weapon or power etc and basically end up with a prototype that has handling characteristics based around those choices.

Improved helicopter and aircraft handling would be good - esp. partial loss of control when a helicopter's hit, instead of it just catching on fire.

More military kit might be nice; it's something only touched upon lightly in most GTA incarnations. It feels like there's more potential there. Civil war? Heh.

More character behaviours and random mutations thereof. Maybe traffic jams, road rage, random crashes etc, I don't know. Rarities and minor unusual events add value, I think. Longer term behaviours too - people with destinations or routes perhaps incorporating transport or parked cars. Just a little detail. Emergencies and responses independent of your actions might be an idea - it's all realism.

More stuff to do once the game is theoretically 100%'d. I guess this means events and randomised things that keep going on. Random mutations are the key again - things that are always slightly different to keep you playing. That's into game theory but I reckon you could easily automatically generate missions from components. For instance take the SA flight school and the waypoint missions. Why stop there? Generate some waypoints in random places and make the route different every go - now you can play it any number of times and it's always new. Say, assassination missions are simply a person, a place, and some story. Generate them.

Definitely more opportunities with what's available already; someone mentioned putting out forest fires with planes - great. Lots there - off the top of my head, crop dusting games, garbage collection, boat races, airlifts, helicopter rescue etc. Simply look at the resources and ask what's doable with them - I think that's cheaply done. Also when stuff is implemented for missions, like the SA magnetic helicopter or GTA3's bulletproof cars, keep it accessible afterwards at all times by default. You've got the reward so you shouldn't lose it, and there's more opportunity to use it.

Perhaps completing the game should reset everyone's hatred of you, or something similar - like God-style control over the environment. I found GTA3's constant gunfire after finishing it a little disappointing. In this respect I really liked GTA2's respect levels - a hidden/subtle version of this might be nice. Perhaps this is a good core for the gameplay, but I wouldn't expect to see it back.

For me the main thing would be some form of user-friendly (at some level, I don't mind some programming) scripting and customisation. Making mod development more accessible really extends the life of a game. It's highly unlikely to happen - dev tools now are licensed/proprietary, and more importantly it's time and effort spent for no money. Still, the best games offer this IMO.

What do you think? I've been playing GTA3 again so I've been thinking about this a lot. Wouldn't it be lovely if R* took notice?

Edited December 15, 2006 by trashbat

[Kitsune Inferno]

If you're lucky, they might just do that. They do look in all kinds of GTA forums. I like that create-a-car idea. Maybe you could also sell it to major corporations so you could see it on the street.

[rockstarrem]

I made a few wishes on my forum...

FIRST:

Rockstar Games has announced episodic content download for the PS3 and Xbox 360 recently where you will be able to download add-ons (missions, vehicles, etc) for the game.

What if there was a map editor similar to Multi Theft Auto: SA, where you place the object and it spawns. Well, there should be that in GTA IV so we all can make a map and play it for ourselves online and upload them for other people to download. This wouldn't include like replacing the GTA IV map, but that would be cool anyway. It would "add-on" to the map to make it a more customized experience. The map would be saved on the Xbox 360/PS3 hard drive and resources would be read off of it.

Since it is "copying" IDs from the game data itself, the map should be no more than 2 MB max in file size. Imaging that as a customized city.

If a modding team can do it I'm sure it's extremely possible for Rockstar Games, at least for the map editor part. I can understand if they don't include the upload feature, but that's just a wish...

SECOND:

How about the casino games (like Poker) could be played with a bunch of people. Like the AI part. They all sit around the table and play with you, not just that asshole in black.

That would also be a idea for multiplayer that they should consider, imagine how cool that would be online...

THIRD:

How about awesome weather effects? For example, some rain storms are bigger than others depending on the wind or area. Or with snow it could just be flakes or a full out State of Emergency. There would be plows going along the streets and all that... wouldn't that be nice?

Maybe in the desert there would be sand storms or locust attacks (tongue.gif). Well, I have many more ideas but I'll tell those later on tonight!

(people probably already though of this...)

FOURTH:

Someone on this forum thought of a really good idea and I added on to it. He said that maybe the character could have a MP3 player and play songs wherever he wants. Here is what I think about this idea:

What if the character has a MP3 player that connects to your Xbox 360/PS3/PC Hard Drive (extremely possible, they have done it in all GTA's), but you'd get to actually have the MP3 player design. You would need to go to a store and pick up a MP3 player there, I think it should be like the whole iPod thing. Maybe one model could be * amount of Gigabytes and another one a * amount of gigabytes. I also think it would be cool if they had the less expensive ones had real shitty quality when the higher-end ones were outstanding and could be heard through your uber 5.1 Surround Sound System.

Then you would need to buy headphones. I currently have Bose TriPort headphones, and no I am not a snob. But I also think the quality should depend on that also. Another idea would be syncing it like a regular computer, you'd need to press "Sync tracks" (similar to Scan User Tracks in PC versions except you'd need to pick the songs you want because of the * amount of gigabytes it can hold).

Also, something like the iHome. The iHome in real life is a dock to play your songs off of your iPod.

[trashbat]

The prototype car creation could go quite a long way. Components or options already present are something like:

* wheelbase: FWD/RWD, 4WD, tracks, hovercraft, plane wheels, plane floats

* engines: normal, fans, jets

* weapons: machine guns, cannon, maybe flamethrower

* addition of wings i.e. microlite style or maybe even rotor

* a few bits and pieces like the magnetic crane

Stick some of those together in a standard framework and add some kind of automagically generated body shell to fit on it.

In fact maybe what you end up making determines whether it's any use or not. You can create a tank with wings but it sure won't fly, and it'll sink if it goes in water. If you balance the options, characteristics and capabilities correctly you can create bespoke vehicles to do various things like flight, amphibious travel, very fast travel etc.

Another idea tied in with that from before - there could be special chaos modes, a bit like rampages. You've seen it's possible to customise the water level in SA to the point where it's either bone dry or covers the skyscrapers. Integrate this into the game in this way so it doesn't interfere with the plot and you can do what you like - missions around it perhaps. Maybe the same applies to some kind of terraforming or other environment changes - that's how you get away with non-permanent changes like blowing a dam or something. Can't think of anything else off the top of my head but I'm sure there are some. Riot mode, martial law etc.

On the subject of respect/factions, maybe there could be ongoing battles between gangs or other elements (the police). You come across one of these, join in for one side, and if you are deemed to have helped them out they become a little more friendly - perhaps offering missions etc. It's a bit more direct than just killing certain people to influence one gang, and its effect can be overridden by the plot.

Oh and being able to summon help might be a nice touch. On demand you can call in a car full of hired guns, a transporter with a certain vehicle, a helicopter either delivered or to take you somewhere... an airstrike? These things could become available as you meet people through missions during the game.

Edited December 15, 2006 by trashbat

[Kitsune Inferno]

I'd like to see a bridge that's under construction. The only way to get to the other side is to jump a ramp. I've been playing LCS way too much last night.

[tilly]

i think for clothes, hair, water, rain, all softbodies, and snow should be done at full effort on blender 3d. i think that would make the game ALOT better.

Edited December 19, 2006 by tilly

[alter ego]

All i want is that you can create and customize your gang

[czhang]

My wish list:

Have a dashboard/cockpit/interior view from vehicles

More realistic car systems, like having petrol (as said in many other places)

More buildings you can enter

Being able to ride passenger planes to different places and walk around the cabin (cool if you could maybe attack the flight attendant or hijack the plane) and you also should be able to (at the airport) rob the check-in counter to get free tickets (or else you have to pay)

A more realistic police system; like being pulled over and fined (and you would be chased if you ran away), if you killed someone sooner or later some detectives question you, and if someone attacked you the cop would arrest them (and you could see it happen)

Ending up inside a jail cell when busted and having to try and break out instead of walking out the station right away, and if possible, even have to change out of your prison uniform once you break out so you wouldn't be noticed

Instead of either being "Wasted" or simply hurt, when your health goes down you get put in an ambulance and you end up in the hospital and you have to bribe the doctor to walk out

Also, when busted, before ending up in jail (as I said in my other "wish") you have a view from in the back of the police car and you can kick the door open and run away. After that, you would have to run to one of your gang members to get rid of the handcuffs (meaning you can only run/walk after escaping) and change clothes before someone sees you in handcuffs and calls the police. Also, your money and weapons were taken away during the pat-down search

I know these ideas seem too detailed and even maybe stupid but remember, the topic is about our "Wishlist"

Anyway, the game would be so cool in my opinion if it had those (and a bunch of other stuff) in it.

[trashbat]

It sounds like you (and in fairness, lots of other people) want the game to be much more of a chore than anything else, which I don't get. I really think - ignoring any issues of feasibility and cost - it's all stuff you'd say 'that's cool' the first and maybe second time, and then get really sick of afterwards, surely?

I don't think you're going to fare too well with any ideas of aircraft hijacking either, but never mind

[tilly]

I think, they should make the game a FUN chore, like having fun thingies to do when your working. people WANT to get lost in boringness in the wilderness..... i dont know why, that sounds sortof retarded. how can you have fun getting lost just running around in boring deserts. you should be able to do fun stuff there. i dont know really what you could do, but i guess Rockstar can get an idea. they pwn nubbs.