Harwood Butcher Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 and yes, people are too tolerant, many gays are struggling to achieve their goal, which is to be married someday, i know that there is a lot of gays in this world, but did these gays think that there are also many people who are against it? They should also consider that. Bold: There are many straight marriages that many people are against, but that usually doesn't effect the couple's decission and it shouldn't effect gay marriages either. The people with arguments against gay marriage have it all wrong. The less tolerant society becomes, the more homosexuals there will be. Especially outside of the United States and Europe, homosexuality is shamed, and this shame makes gay men try and lead heterosexual lives. They force themselves to have a wife and kids. And guess what? Having a child spreads homosexuality! If we are more tolerant of it and allow gay people to marry one another, I don't doubt that homosexuality would disappear given the right amount of time. Bold: Are you saying homosexuality is genetic? I think a few people are getting this mixed up... gay marriage wouldn't change that much, only allow gay couples to get married, when normally they would just stay as couples. Banning gay marriage doesn't stop us getting together, just prevents us having the same rights as opposite-sex couples. This isn't about allowing or disallowing homosexuality or homosexual couples, it's just whether or not they can share a surname, share an income, get the right benefits, adopt children or whatever. It's just a legal status. Bold: For some reason I never really thought about the rights couples recieve when they get married in this particular situation. I guess I just thought that people didn't want this to happen because of, mainly, religious reasons. Now I could some what see where those people against it are coming from. Gay Marriage could possibly be used as loopholes...which might be the problem. Although, that doesn't really change my opinion, I still think homosexuals should be allowed to get married...provided that they are in fact homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Again, there's absolutely NO difference between gay and straight marriage in terms of loopholes. Do you check that straight couples are actually straight before they get married, just in case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vercetti Thug Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 People, i'd just like to point out that though you are enforcing your beliefs, your mostly ganging up on someone for their arguement or even a little detail that made you uncomfortable. Also, these posts are getting repetitve, especially since the same people say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Give us an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rappo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Bold: Are you saying homosexuality is genetic? Yeah, that is what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Again, there's absolutely NO difference between gay and straight marriage in terms of loopholes. Do you check that straight couples are actually straight before they get married, just in case? Well I think it's a little more difficult for a guy to find a female to "marry" to use as a loophole than it would be for that guy to find a guy friend to "marry" as a loophole. But yes, either way there could be loopholes. Bold: Are you saying homosexuality is genetic? Yeah, that is what I'm saying. WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rappo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) Excuse me? Do you have a doubt that homosexuality is genetic? Please ask any of the various gay people on this board whether or not they made it their choice. You are born with your sexual preference, and going against that is unnatural and nearly impossible. Just as you are averted to having sex with a man, a gay man is averted to having sex with a woman. Edited December 18, 2008 by rappo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macorules94 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 i seriously dont care what ppl do its their life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Excuse me? Do you have a doubt that homosexuality is genetic? Please ask any of the various gay people on this board whether or not they made it their choice. You are born with your sexual preference, and going against that is unnatural and nearly impossible. Just as you are averted to having sex with a man, a gay man is averted to having sex with a woman. Here, let me google that for you. I don't think homosexuality gets passed down through generations. Although, from your last post it seems like what you're talking about is kinda different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rappo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Here, let me google that for you. I'm aware of what genetic means, and I don't appreciate your sarcasm. I stand by what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Firstly, just because it isnt' a choice doesn't mean it's genetic. Just because you're born with something, doesn't mean it is passed on genetically. I'm gay (in case you hadn't figured that out), and I never chose to be gay (which most people appreciate). However, I have an absent father, overbearing mother, and I went to a boys-only school. That's got to have something to do with it. I personally blieve it is decided during puberty, not through a choice, but due to a wide range of environmental factors. Probably combined with a random predisposition to be suceptible to it, like some people get more colds. Even if I was always this way (from birth) doesn't make it genetic. It does not mean that a gay man would have a gay son - that simply isn't true, even slightly. There is no "gay gene" or anything like that. If you are suggesting that a child brought up by two men (but with a straight biological father) is more likely to be gay, then that is more realistic. However, is that suggesting that it is infectious? When you have a girlfriend, does that make you more likely to want to wear women's clothing? There's a difference between a role model and a contagious disease. I don't think you can force sexuality onto someone like that, or I'm sure homosexuality would be just as easily preventable. Don't forget that both my parents were straight... they didn't have a straight son. Why would a gay man have a gay son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) Here, let me google that for you. I'm aware of what genetic means, and I don't appreciate your sarcasm. I stand by what I said. You know what "genetic" means...and you still want to stick with your previous opinion statement... So you actually think that homosexuality is passed down from parents to children? If so then you're basically giving me more to argue with that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Oh, by the way...I wasn't really being sarcastic in my last post... Edited December 18, 2008 by Harwood Butcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rappo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) I think you're the one who needs to learn what genetic means. Genetic = passing down from parent to child through genes. Genes are located in sperm (for males) and the egg (for females). You cannot have a passing of genes from a parent to an adopted child, that is the essence of adoption - the child is not biologically yours and therefore contains none of your genes. After reading your post I'm fairly certain I'm done arguing my point with you... Edited December 18, 2008 by rappo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Back on topic please - gay marriage, not genetics Remember, that "Best Debater" award is up for grabs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rappo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Was my last post deleted or something? Would be nice to be given a heads-up next time Anyway, for those that don't really have a problem with homosexuality but don't understand why they care about getting married so badly (I was in the same position, I always found marriage a particularly religious event and didn't see what the big fuss was for gays to have true marriage rather than civil unions), there are a lot of benefits in marriage that we may not normally realize. Here is some more information on that: http://www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm and there is a lot more around the web if you just search for marriage benefits. After reading over some of those sites, it's pretty clear that it's wrong to deny certain people of these rights, especially in a country like the United States where freedom is a central theme of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas. Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 i seriously dont care what ppl doits their life Your meant to be discussing gay marriage no what "ppl" do. At least answer the poll. -- I don't think it has that much to do with Genetics, it could be that you just want to. Everybody has a choice in what they want, hardly anyone is forced to be "gay" or to be a "lesbian". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX22B1998 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 (edited) Again, there's absolutely NO difference between gay and straight marriage in terms of loopholes. Do you check that straight couples are actually straight before they get married, just in case? lolz "chuck and larry". that was fuckin hilarious! honestly i agree with vercetti about saying that anyone that says its wrong just gets yelled at and branded a intolerant sexist right-wing communist or whatever... dont kill me china its getting a bit out of hand yeah, as gerard sez, its the same i guess. but if i knew someone had gay parents, i (not trying to be slack) and many others (like my whole school probably...) would give them shit. like, forever (therefore symbol) thank god guns arent legal in au. it might be a normal sorta thing (to some) but to most of the world (again no offence meant) its weird. thats my view on it. and im not posting again lol. this is just a excuse to post that people are "intolerant" Edited December 18, 2008 by WRX22B1998 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I still feel that everyone should get married if they want to, couples are going to exist, by banning the right of marriage won't stop people from being a couple. So why bother trying to oppress it. Everyone should be able to as I would love to get married, and would never want to be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vercetti Thug Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Here is a simple question I still cannot quite answer: How is this natural? For children to be born, a man and woman gotta do it. You can't rub two sticks together or rub two...not sticks together and expect a miracle. The mysterious gay gene, how does it exist? Is that proof of naturality to be gay? Noone's beliefs will be changed by a discussion on a GTA forum, so why not learn more to it? I believe gay marriage is wrong, and I believe being gay is wrong. To be born gay, to me, is a fate that is unhumane and actually, in my mind, its a bit evil to be gay. A kid got shot and killed for being gay in a school, every day gays are harrassed, and yet they come out with protesting sacred marriage, increasing social pressure against them. I myself harass them too. There are some people at my school that I believe to be gay, if they tried acting normal I wouldn't have a problem. Instead they act like genuine T.V straight out of Family Guy gays. Voice, speech, choice of words, moisturizer in their lightish purple backpacks, they are the very thing I am disgusted to believe in. Besides the sociality of it, I believe it's just unclean to be gay, and I was scared out of my head when it looked as if Prop 8 was going to fail. I was happy to hear it passed. I guess i've just rambled about how I feel about homosexuality, without quite sticking to a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas. Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 It comes with age, not genes. We all have decisions in life and someone might like someone who is the same sex and maybe turning into a gay or bisexual. But that won't happen to everyone all the time. It has hardly anything to do with genes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Here is a simple question I still cannot quite answer:How is this natural? For children to be born, a man and woman gotta do it. You can't rub two sticks together or rub two...not sticks together and expect a miracle. The mysterious gay gene, how does it exist? Is that proof of naturality to be gay? Noone's beliefs will be changed by a discussion on a GTA forum, so why not learn more to it? I believe gay marriage is wrong, and I believe being gay is wrong. To be born gay, to me, is a fate that is unhumane and actually, in my mind, its a bit evil to be gay. A kid got shot and killed for being gay in a school, every day gays are harrassed, and yet they come out with protesting sacred marriage, increasing social pressure against them. I myself harass them too. There are some people at my school that I believe to be gay, if they tried acting normal I wouldn't have a problem. Instead they act like genuine T.V straight out of Family Guy gays. Voice, speech, choice of words, moisturizer in their lightish purple backpacks, they are the very thing I am disgusted to believe in. Besides the sociality of it, I believe it's just unclean to be gay, and I was scared out of my head when it looked as if Prop 8 was going to fail. I was happy to hear it passed. I guess i've just rambled about how I feel about homosexuality, without quite sticking to a point. Well ok, that's your opinion and I'm not going to try and change that, but it seems like you look at homosexuals and think there is only one kind(highlighted up top). Now I may have misinterpreted what you were saying, but from reading that, to me, it seems like you think all homosexuals have the same personality, same likes and dislikes, same mannerisms, etc. I bet there is at least one homosexual out there that has all the same interest and taste as you do, besides their sexual preference of course. Would you dislike them JUST because they're gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Fair enough, that is your perception and opinion - and it is the same as many other people. You are of course entitled to that, but I am also entitled to show you that it isn't really correct. Please allow me to express my thoughts, and please let me know which you agree with, and why you feel the way you do. Why do you say it is "a bit evil" to be gay? I haven't chosen to be gay, it just so happens (for whatever reason) that I don't find women attractive at all, but I think some guys are really hot. Nothing evil about that, just happens to be what I like and what I don't like. You can't choose what you like - I don't think you ever made a decision to like women, or to like breathing air, or to like pizza. You just do! If the problem is gay men acting on their sexuality, is that wrong? Why is it okay for you to have a girlfriend, have sex, love whoever you choose (whether black, white, fat, thin etc), and its okay for women to have a boyfriend, but its not okay for me to have a boyfriend? Am I not allowed to feel love because of who There is a similar argument that says if someone loved an animal or a child, they are not allowed to have sex or marry them. Pretty much everyone agrees with that (including me). So many people think the same applies to being gay - it is morally wrong, and you shouldn't be allowed to do it. The thing with gay people is that we are consenting adults. It would be fine for us to have sex, just not with each other. What is the point in that? As for all gays being lisping, camp, drag queens- I think you watch too much TV. I know a lot of gay people, and only a very small number of them are "obviously" gay. Nobody has ever guessed that I am gay - I appear completely normal, and I am very masculine. I'm in the Army, I like computers, gadgets, gaming, cars etc. I don't have fancy hair, don't wear fancy clothes, don't talk funny, don't walk funny, don't moisturise etc. Do I look gay to you? (apart from the last photo) The other thing is... does it really matter? This is what Harwood Butcher was hinting at. If your best friend happened to like bananas (but you hated bananas), would you stop being his friend? It doesn't affect you, so you can ignore it and still be friends. If your best friend happened to like other men (but you hate gays) would you stop being his friend? It doesn't affect you, so you can ignore it and still be friends. "I was scared out of my head when it looked as if Prop 8 was going to fail" - why were you scared? What would have happened? It would make no difference to your life at all. All it means is that gay couples (who are already gay, and already couples) could get married, instead of just being gay couples. It's not as if suddenly more gay people will appear, or more people will 'decide' to be gay since its OK now. "For children to be born, a man and woman gotta do it." - what if we don't want children? That isn't all that life is about. What about infertile straight couples, who (for medical reasons) can't have children? Are they unclean? Are they not allowed to be together? Not allowed to have sex? Not allowed to get married? What's the difference? In answer to your first question "How is this natural?" - there are two answers. Firstly, it is natural because I was born gay. Same with everyone else. It might not be completely normal, but it's quite common, and nobody 'did' anything to make it happen. Secondly, even if it wasn't natural, what does that matter? Cars aren't natural, are they evil? Music isn't natural, is that evil? Sex and love are the MOST natural things in the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 It is very natural, you say its evil not natural. People dont choose to be gay, who would happily choose to be oppressed and have people be nasty about them. My friend was one of these people who was stereotype, he wasnt like that before he came out, but I feel he needed to prove who he was so people would start paying attention to what who he was, and the way was to be a stereotype just so he could finally be noticed afer years of no one caring. The fact thats its natural is very clear, animals have shown this. Dolphins are the clear example, they only mate with females but otherwise show affection to males most of their lives. They do have sex with each other, even though they are the same gender, as like humans, dolphins enjoy sex too. There was the penguin couple in New York who were both male. I just wanted to show how it is natural as it happens alot in the animal kingdom. What is more natural then that. Gerard and Harwood are completly right, it would be the same as not liking someone because they like pineapples. Everyone deserves to love who they want, and what is more natural then love. If your straight well congratulations to you, but imagine if you were gay and you were having a hard time for loving someone that parts of society dont agree with. Well done, you have it easy, you can hold hands in the street and show affecion in public without any narrow minded people harrsassing you for something so natural. Now, things have changed alot for gay people, its no longer illegal, so therefore it shouldnt be wrong. I know we can never change your mind, but its worth it to express our opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they're gonna come up to you in the street and assrape you. My best friend is gay, and you say it's fucking evil, there's nothing wrong with him, he's a nice guy, he doesn't try to assrape me. "I like bananas" - opinion "all fags should die because they're evil" - offensive Edited December 19, 2008 by Connor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they're gonna come up to you in the street and assrape you.My best friend is gay, and you say it's fucking evil, there's nothing wrong with him, he's a nice guy, he doesn't try to assrape me. "I like bananas" - opinion "all fags should die because they're evil" - offensive Bold: Well that's still an opinion...a really offensive opinion...but an opinion nonetheless. I think a lot of homophobes are homophobes not only because they're afraid of being ass raped, but because of the idea in general. Which brings us back to the topic at hand. Just because you're afraid of getting ass raped by some homosexual that probably has absolutely no attraction to you doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to get married. I have never once heard of a gay guy raping a straight guy. That would really creep me out, just like any other kind of rape would....but then again...there are straight guys in prison that rape other straight guys....which I find to be even creepier. So for those homophobes out there…I hope you don’t end up in prison…cause your ass will be mighty sore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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