The New Gangs Idea / Multiplayer Survey

[Chris]

As you may have heard/read I'm eventually planning on making some significant changes to how gangs operate here. Currently there are numerous flaws and things that are making gangs a bit pointless. Like the store not fully working, and the fact the gang system isn't fully integrated because of this - and the huge limitations of it being just text based.

Our new idea has come about largely due to the direction GTA seems to be taking, and the fact that multiplayer mods are so popular now.

Since GTAIV is unlikely to feature a built in gang/clan system in it's multiplayer mode, players will resort to online forums such as this one to organise wars between themselves and other gangs. Of course it would be impossible to actually integrate the gangs with the game, but this can at least serve as a base for your operations.

Members would join gangs here and discuss tactics and whatnot, the public gang chat board would turn into a message board style with gangs posting up times which they'll go online to fight and record their wins/losses etc.

I can't go into much more detail until we have more information on GTA IV's multiplayer modes. If the 16 players rumour is true, we could assume a team deathmatch option will be available, allowing for 8 v 8 gang wars.

Now until GTA IV is out there is always MTASA and SAMP. It could be the case that we make this transition smoother by re-doing the system asap so you guys can use it for multiplayer SA matches.

That's why I've created a poll at the top of this topic. If you could all answer it I'd have some idea of the current situation and determine how viable this is. Your thoughts are most definitely welcome - I understand that many of you may be annoyed by this, not fully understand, or whatever, or you may think it's a great idea, either way I want to hear what everyone thinks so we can make changes to the idea and/or current system.

[Slayer]

I've always thought it is just a matter of time till we make this transition.

[MrLlamaLlama]

Go for it. The gang scene isn't real big right now... AFAIK.... Something like this could / would spur more interest... I might even decide to download SA:MP (You know them things you've always meant to do, but never actually do... yeah... it's one of those things... )

Gangs should be operated via user groups, to eliminate the slightest chance of access to another gang's forum... (Wasn't this going to be implemented, then just... eh?)

But anyhow... Would the Multiplayer gangs be restricted to the gangs we already have in place? (Like DS memebrs must fight vs. LCF members, and so on...)

[Dazza]

I can't see why not? I would play if we used SA:MP or VC:MP, but if we used GTA IV I wouldn't be able to play, we should stay with SA:MP for now until the prices of a PS3 and X360 go down, since I know for a fact that most of my gang members can't afford (This includes me) the console plus the game.

[Red_91]

I think the only way this is going to work is for only on GTAIV, since quite a lot of people dont do PC gaming so thats a real big flaw, if it was on the PS3360 it woul be great to do

[K9 Krew]

Yeah, see thats one flaw i see in this, is that not everybody plays GTA on the PC so we don't all have SA MP and so on.

[Dazza]

Another flaw, not all of us have a PS3 or X360. So it won't only work on GTAIV.

[Red_91]

^

@ Dazza

Im sure there will be more people who will be getting GTAIV for either 360/PS3 than they will play SA:MP when it is released. I think theres quite a few people here who wont use there PC for gaming and I am one of them. I gurantee there will be a lot of people with 360/PS3 on this site by the time GTAIV is released as this is a GTA fan site.

[Slayer]

Damn people, we all have PCs but not all of us have consoles. Either can't afford or not interested in console gaming. SA really isn't a game you'll need a monster of a comp to run. You could run it on an average 5 year old comp =/. And as we can see, all of us have internet. It's not a problem to borrow a game really. It is a problem to get a console or two just to play multiplayer with TGTAP community.

[Chris]

There hasn't been as many responses to this as I would have liked so it's still a little bit mixed. But in general we can see that most of you are wanting to play multiplayer, and most think the new gang idea is good.

The problem at the moment is how we're gonna sort out what gangs are playing what game.

Let's take the DS for example as they're arguably the most powerful gang at the moment...

Firstly, I doubt ALL the members own either the same console, or, are all waiting for the PC version. Should the DS now split into new gangs (e.g. the original DS remains as all Xbox 360 players, while members who didn't have a 360 start their own gang up as they all have PS3s...)

OR

should the DS stay as one, but have some of the members playing 360, and some on PS3 (this would be fine but would make organising gang wars in-game a little confusing and more difficult than it would be if it was obvious that the entire gang were on one platform)

That's just an example of some problems we'll have. One thing that has surprised me the most is just how few of you are currently playing multiplayer on your PCs, it seems like you're mostly completely uninterested in the whole multiplayer thing. If more of you played SAMP for example it would be great to get some gang wars going on!

You guys have any thoughts/comments/opinions/ideas?

[Spaz The Great]

Online gang wars? Good idea. Organization? Problem. Solution? There's a few, actually.

The console vs. PC argument is stupid, but at least the PC side of it realized neither is in a winning situation. It's easy for most of us to get a hold of SA and MTA/SA:MP/etc. than it is to get a PS3 or 360 AND the game on top of that. Not to mention a router if one is not already owned. Now, I understand a lot of people are stubborn. Y'know, the "well PC gaming is stupid" crowd, or the console elitists, or even the people who just never think their PC is good enough. Then, of course, the group I fall into, the "Fuck GTA with a keyboard and mouse, it just isn't the same". Flipping sides on that argument we have the perfect opposite of that last one with the "Mouse and keyboard is the ONLY way to play GTA!" group. Then, of course, the very obvious, "I can't afford a PS3/360 right now, let alone a game for either".

So we're stuck here with the dilemma that Chris pointed out. And, he did very well give us some pretty decent answers to it. People splitting and grouping according to system would indeed make sense. But then we have a flaw. Most people are "loyal" to their current gang and would probably not want to switch like that. On top of that, we're currently grouped and ganged by terms of agreement and tolerance. We pretty well enjoy the gangs we're in. I'd assume most of us like the people in the gang, or like most of them enough to tolerate the ones we don't. We all have our reasons for being in the gangs we're in, but I highly doubt any of us have a reason even close to console-related issues. Nor do I think many of us would be willing to do it, except fan boy who just want to say they are a PS3 gang, or a 360 gang, because then they are definitely better gamers than anyone else ever.

The idea I quite like, even with it's flaws((which I will get to)), is splitting each gang into appropriate console sections. This doesn't have to affect the gangs at all, really. It simply adds another classification into the core of the roster. No one has to change anything, at all. This means we all get to stay with our, excuse my language, fuck buddies. Now, of course, the inevitable flaws. This means it would be very rare that a single member could participate in all the wars. Of course, this WOULD force us to use more variety of our members, thus strengthening the gangs.... But... Some gangs would be limited to certain consoles, or maybe they'd have one or two members who couldn't participate at all because they are the only PC gamer in their gang or whatever. Even worse, you could end up with two gangs who couldn't physically battle each other, AT ALL. This would be bad if it were to happen to big gang rivalries, say, the DS and LCF. These two are obviously prime opponents. The participants would really get into it, and it would be a lot of fun. Granted, with the two biggest gangs, such scenario is less likely to happen, but it's still possible.

We're going to run into this problem, and we can't change the problem or get around it in a way that doesn't split people up somehow. So I believe we're going to just have to choose the option that looks the best on paper and hope it works good. As stated, I support splitting the current gangs into sub-groups based on console, but even that support is a little iffy. I want GTA IV, being an avid fan and all, so I'm sure that I'll have it before the end of 08((I'd bet before the end of the Summer of 08, but no promises)). I can't say much for the rest of my gang, though, and I'm not forcing anyone to spend mega cash or be kicked out, either.

Why I don't play online? Well, I don't own any PC versions of the game. So that alone kind of limits to me to zero online gaming. Even if I did, I wouldn't play them online unless I got a DualShock 2 replica and perfected it((last one I bought I just couldn't get to work with VC)). I just can't do the keyboard and mouse thing.

And that's really all I have to say on the matter.

[Slayer]

I guess we need a new poll. MP matches on PC or console?

[Chris]

Spaz brought up some good points there that I'll think about and perhaps discuss in a separate topic.

Slayer, yeah or we could just do both, obviously though if you're gang has only 1 members with say the ps3 version, having gang wars on that system would be retarded.

Perhaps each gang could recruit console specific members (and limit their gang only to that console) and they could war with another gang also with that console.

Gangs gaining popularity might open up a recruitment thread for the other console and get a bunch of members for that and thus be able to organise wars on both consoles.

[Gerard]

I'm with Spaz all the way.

The actual matches won't affect the gangs on the forums - there's no leaderboard or points or whatever - so there's nothing that says they have to be split up into consoles.

Say we had a gang, say the DS, with ten members. Five of them have the 360 version of GTAIV, and they war against 5 members of the SFM who also have the 360 version. They hate each other and hurl insults. Then three members of the DS who have SA:MP on PC war against 3 from the SFM who also have it, and they hate each other and hurl insults on the forum.

The gangs are still the gangs, and the different consoles are just like different requirements for each individual battle in the war. Spaz might participate in the 360 and PS3 battles, Chris might fight in the PC and 360 battles, I might only fight in the PC ones, Chris82 might fight in all three... doesn't make any difference except to who you can fight and how often.

On another note, how about recording the outcomes of planned matches? Okay so we can't do it automagically/electronically, but we can still record them on the forums if both parties agree on the score/winner/outcome or a neutral spectator/official records it. This wouldn't count towards anything real, it's just a record of who pwnt who.

[Spaz The Great]

I guess we need a new poll. MP matches on PC or console?

That isn't even an option. That limits even more than the other two options.

[Slayer]

Perhaps each gang could recruit console specific members (and limit their gang only to that console) and they could war with another gang also with that console.

Gangs gaining popularity might open up a recruitment thread for the other console and get a bunch of members for that and thus be able to organise wars on both consoles.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I'm with you. Just that would leave no chance to smaller gangs. You'll need to have big ass gangs or no gangs at all .

[Chris]

The actual matches won't affect the gangs on the forums - there's no leaderboard or points or whatever.

Well actually that's a point I forgot to bring up as (to me) it was obvious, but clearly needed to be said, and you said pretty much what I was thinking at the end of your post anyway. But yeah we'd definitely record wins and losses to act as a leaderboard in the forums, that would be awesome and even though it means little, it gives gangs some sort of achievement incentive, and we'd give awards out periodically and stuff.

Perhaps each gang could recruit console specific members (and limit their gang only to that console) and they could war with another gang also with that console.

Gangs gaining popularity might open up a recruitment thread for the other console and get a bunch of members for that and thus be able to organise wars on both consoles.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I'm with you. Just that would leave no chance to smaller gangs. You'll need to have big ass gangs or no gangs at all .

Actually no, it would, because if large gangs split into console specific divisions, then smaller gangs would have a chance as they wouldn't need to get many members before they could go up against one of those splits.

Remember that money on the forums and items won't matter whatsoever anymore, all you need is members who are good at playing GTA, so basically, not n00bs, or newbs, but at least with the latter you can train them and tell them what to do etc.

[Wheelman101]

Perhaps each gang could recruit console specific members (and limit their gang only to that console) and they could war with another gang also with that console.

Gangs gaining popularity might open up a recruitment thread for the other console and get a bunch of members for that and thus be able to organise wars on both consoles.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I'm with you. Just that would leave no chance to smaller gangs. You'll need to have big ass gangs or no gangs at all .

i hear BASERAPE TIME , yeah, would be unfair for smaller gangs and groups, but yeah reading chris's post, all you need is a person with good FPS skills, AKA chris82, me, and theres a few others on here, but yeah, i played BF2 for weeks upon weeks, ranked up twice, and went to some SAMP and i fucking own'd harshly, most people on SAMP dont know about "Cover" lol. but yeah, if GTA4 has gangs like that for Multiplayer, i am so going to make a set up and have like 4 snipers on roof tops and have 2 on the ground towards the other gang and pop pop pop.

[Spaz The Great]

If a gang only had like 3-5 members and it took on a bigger gang, each gang could simply be limited to the same amount of members. Or, a better idea IMO, would to limit the bigger gang a few gang members more than the smaller gang has((that way they won't just rape them, but they'd still have an advantage from having a bigger stronger gang, otherwise having a bigger stronger gang would be worthless)).