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I am a big lover of all the GTA games so believe me I am not just having a go for the sake of it.

The graphics are supreme, the extras astounding, attention to detail second to none, but.... Is it still fun? I maybe the only person in the world to dare say anything against the might that is GTAIV, but I just cannot get used to it.

The cars are near impossible to handle, handbrake..Forget it. The better sportier cars are just harder to control and this is infuriating in chase missions or bring this vehicle back in mint condition missions.

Also it is so dark! playing in daytime is hard, everywhere is so dark, day or night. (I have tried brightness!), thirdly I am used to classic controls, x being accelerate etc (PS3), supported yes, playable.. not so. There are no look left/right shoulder buttons and reversing/looking behind means pressing square and R3 plus right stick if you wish to turn.

I want to like this game so much but all the glamour and glitz is meaningless if the basics are forgotten, cars should not handle like real-life cars, it's a game it's supposed to be fun, you not meant to drive at 30mph and indicate at a junction (slight exaggeration)

One last thing before the lynch mobs are out, where exactly does this game fit in? are there 2 Liberty Cities? this would not be so much a problem if this newer one was the 'real' one forget what went before. But San Andreas is advertised on TV, the original Liberty City was a mission in San Andreas, therefore that Liberty City exists in their eyes, but then so does the new one as it's referred to on TV programs/adverts. ?

Anyways it's a great game I know and people are gonna love it because it is what it is, many will love the new handling, but I think the purists may argue that you just get the feeling of waiting for that and wanting to garage that super car as it's gonna handle like it's on something.

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Not sure if any of the following counts as spoilers, so consider yourself advised.

Agreed on the changed control setup, this one (X360) takes a little getting used to.

On the other hand, (in multi-player at least) You can now run w/ any weapon & shooting from a car is improved & more

realistic.

Fun? Hell yeah! Tuesday night (US central) I hung out w/ Chris, Rem & Chris 82 for a while & had a blast. Took a heli

tour of the city in a Maverick only to find out our beloved leader is a madcapper who likes to shoot peds, traded lead w/

Rem & RPG rounds w/ Chris82. Had fun.

To me it's definitely worth it, just a little different from what we're used to.

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I felt the same way when I was playing it at a friends house the other day. Sure, the graphics are amazing, the detail is rediculous and the storyline is the best I've seen in a long time. But, it not as 'fun' as the ones before it. You can't do anything in the city without a cop seeing you because THE COPS ARE EVERYWHERE! Oh my god, anytime I did anything at all I would get a wanted level, it is very annoying. Hopefully Rockstar gives us a 'no wanted level cheat' that would really make this game the best game ever.

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You'll be glad to know Chris posted a list of GTA4 cheats, w/ warning that they disable achievements.

I like the upgraded cops, they have to see you this time instead of just show up around you & lock on. Except for a

little "incident" at the airport (my poor taxi, my poor me :lol: ) losing them has been easy for me.

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I think you are 100% right.

The lighting drives me absolutely nuts. I have adjusted my TV and pulled my shades, and it is still difficult to see where the hell I am going. To make matters worse, the cars we are driving handle like a school bus. To stay on the road or corner hard or even quickly spin around is near impossible. I hate the driving in this game, I hate how when you are trying to steer under the already impossible conditions, you are actually adjusting the camera angle. So now its dark as hell, my car is fish tailing from lane to lane, the camera angle is a close up of my rear bumper and apparently in my blind driving I have ran over a cop and my wanted level is up.

The driving was superb in the all the previous installments... was the funnest part of the game. Ripping down the roads on bike or a fast car. Now you have to obey the laws or you will trash your car or mow down a pack of pedestrians. The steering is otroscious and lighting is lacking. ALSO THERE ARE TOO MANY COPS. WTF is up with this.. seems like every time I jack a car, my wanted level is immediately at 1*. Not too mention, all the praisers of the game talk of the realism. How is this for realism.. I get a wanted level so I tear ass down the road trying to get out of the 'cop circle'. I am not exaggerating when I say that my car looks like it is being piloted by a drunken blind man who is currently steering with feet. But somehow... I manage to escape the cops view and all of a sudden I am good to go. Unfortunately I couldn't look back at the cop, but if he could not keep up with me I can only imagine how bad he was driving.

Aside from these issues, the game seems fantastic. I am only 11% into the game so hopefully I will master the camera angle and driving skills. Time will tell - but I just wanted to say how much I agreed with you and I was a little disapointed from the first time I drove Roman's car and I ran into oncoming traffic. I became lodged against this car who wouldnt stop honking at me and I couldnt for the life of me figure out what the f**k reverse was. Needless to say, Roman was done talking by the time I pushed the car out my way and finally started off towards his "mansion".

GAME IS STILL COOL, CAN'T WAIT TO TRY THE MULTIPLAYER

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well from why im heraing, the game is very real,, the driving of the cars,, the cops ,, all its like in real life

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I don't know guys - I don't understand all the complaints about driving. To me, it's pretty simple, Don't floor it all the time! Could you imaging driving your real car with the gas pressed down all the time? It doesn't work that way, you'd be out of control in a second. Just lke the game.

Quit flooring it all the time and learn to work those accelerators properly. Slow down for the turns (hit the brake? What??), then punch it going out, that's real driving.

Also - what car you're driving has a LOT to do with it! Old muscle cars slide all OVER the place (especially if your floor it) and are about useless in turns unless you slow way down. Little burners tend to handle turns great, but are VERY light, and bumps (curbs, especially) will bounce them around like crazy. You have to tailor your driving to the vehicle you have.

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I was sorely disappointed with IV. I don't know what it is, but it's missing something. It doesn't really feel like GTA anymore but I can't explain why. It's just lost something.

The driving is easily one of the worst features of IV, if you ask me. I've played this game for over 14 hours now, for hours at a time, and I still can't handle corners. Sometimes my car spins out of control over the slightest turn, even at moderate speed.

Maybe this is just me, but somehow, the missions seem a bit boring and not very challenging. I haven't gotten excited about any of the missions yet and I've yet to really get stuck on one. I've only had to redo a few missions. Alot of the time it was due to the new controls that I can't get used to/remember. I keep forgetting to turn the camera to get Niko to shoot behind him. This means that I keep dying when someone shoots at me from behind, because I can't get Niko to turn around and shoot the guy(s). With all the previous titles, SA especially, if I ever got stuck on a mission, I really was stuck and not because I couldn't control the character or cars. Some missions in SA took me weeks to do and some I never did complete (such as the one with the little flying planes that you had to shoot down from the roof).

I can't see myself playing IV after the missions are done. There is a bit of a lack of things to do and places to explore (dispite it being based on New York). With the other games, I continued to play regularly after the missions and still got just as much enjoyment out of them.

Huge disappointment... :(

By the way, I'm new to this forum, so hey everyone!

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I don't understand you guys really...

Some of us, who have been playing GTA for many years, are sick are tired of the mindless arcade driving.

If you use your head you realize the driving is a challenge, and makes the game a lot better, just BRAKE people, it isn't that difficult.

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Not challenging? Wait until you get into the later missions some of which are bitches to complete on the first try.

Also, PROTIP: Use handbrake to corner.

Lack of things to do? TV? Internet? Multiplayer? Activities with friends? Stunts? Hidden packages?

Also if you're playing on a HDTV you should have no problem with lighting, it DOES get pretty dark in some places but nothing annoying.

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Wow. All these ppl who have 1 or 4 posts have come to this site just to post the badness of GTA IV. i was thinking of getting it, but now that I seen this, its just ridiculous.

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Wow. All these ppl who have 1 or 4 posts have come to this site just to post the badness of GTA IV. i was thinking of getting it, but now that I seen this, its just ridiculous.

Don't listen to these people, the only way is to see for yourself. Go to GameFly or some other establishment and rent it and see if you like it.

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When you break it kills your turn, even if its much before the turn. If its too late you go directly straight and fly way past where you need to go, overdoing the realism. Even in real cars you can break around a turn and you wont lose ALL traction like that.

If you accelerate around the turn you ALWAYS get wheel spin and spin the car. If you break early you still spin a little. In a coqette(you would imagine to be the best handling car in the game) i went on three wheels while burning out around a turn at about 15 mph ACCELERATING. The physics and vehicle characteristics are obviously not completely accurate or as accurate as they could be with a little tweaking. it just simply would not happen in real life. Also the cars seem like they have really low gravity. They fly really high at every bounce, have bad breaking, and have low friction. If the engine is good enough, couldnt a little gravity raising for the car fix all these things?

The dark area lighting isn't close to good unless you have 1080p HD, and even then the hdr lighting is weak. Take counter strike source for example. When you go into a dark room, its dark for a second, then your "eyes" adjust to the darkness and it turns regular again. When you go outside you are blinded for a second and then your "eyes" adjust again. This is missing in IV.

The cops are VERY good at slow speeds. There AI is amazing in cars and there tactics are very smart, only overkill is when you are driving at 150 mph in a turismo and one cop instantly shoots out your front left window, then kills you with 2 headshots. Its like they have some compensating aimbot or something. But cops ARE everywhere. I was on a street once and i called 911 and summoned a cop. A few seconds later the cop came and that was fine. I was about to kill him to get his car (the stealthynesses are needed here, but IV for some reason doesnt have it. Hitman ftw) but then another cop went down the road and stopped. Then it passed by and i was about to kill him, but then another cop car came right then. The cop i called drove away and the whole thing became a stupid waste of time. Also the thing they say about people having to see you then call the police before the cops are actually after you is BS. I was on a deserted dock behind a unused building and i beat up and killed a hobo. Nobody saw me but somehow i had a dark star. I walked up the stairs and a cop (the only guy on the street) was standing down the street and saw me then headshot me instantly. You should be able to kill someone, hide the body and then never get caught. Its sorta stupid though because sometimes when you run like 5 people over, you dont get any cops on you.

I feel like im having less fun just running around and doing whatever. I cant cause havoc because i die instantly. I cant go punching people and having fun because the fighting is so slow, laggy and unresponsive. I cant run super fast like in SA, the tapping medium fast and super fast has about the same speed of running in game. I feel just more controlled. Like in real life. I want a game as an big, open, unleashed sandbox to do whatever i want in. Not a big, open sandbox while im seatbelted down. I take off the seatbelt and i die.

Also i had one little fun glitch. Right before a car hit me i jumped up onto the windsheild and it flung me about 50 feet in the air and i landed on top of a building and had to jump down and die. This is much like a glitch in the game "Skate" where the same happens sometimes if you jump on cars windshields.

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Another thing is the camera angle when in any vehicle, it's not directly behind but to the left. Now I have to drive in 1st person mode which defeats the point of getting those fantastic looking vehicles because all you see is the bonnet (and you cannot tell if you are about to explode in this view, as I have found out in missions). Plus as for lighting, for a added gripe does the game sometimes look almost black and white in some weather conditions?

The handling is more realistic, but the whole point of a game is that it's a game, you are not meant to drive at 15mph and slow to a halt before turning. We want to belt up the road weaving in and out of traffic and hand-braking perfectly around corners and claiming insane stunts.

And the cheats... You are being shot at by 3 cops with your two-star wanted level, you have nowhere to hide without them following you so you whip out your phone and try to key in the 'lower wanted level cheat' on the worlds tiniest buttons, a gunshot hits you... Your phone disappears and you have to start again. What the?

I know cheats can ruin a game, but sometimes a little help is required, especially in them long many part missions.

Imagine, just for fun, Grand Theft Auto 3 the whole game same missions but with todays graphics, vehicles and extras, top drawer. Because I think games get too big, to the point that you can't be bothered driving to a mission or place of interest because it is just too damn far. So you take a cab. Where's the fun in that. GTA3 was the right size for blasting around, taxi missions worked well. Just a thought.

I have played my own San Andreas Enhanced over and over, every car changed, absolute blast, and more to the point much Fun.

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Last one and I'm done, everytime I step into the road..WHACK! I'm a gonna. Understand the whole 'if you walk out into traffic' but most of the time I am hit from behind and mostly when I have whistled a taxi and it waits 100yards down the road on the opposite side!

A couple of times I have become sandwiched between two cars and my health races down to zero. When you are being shot at and you have to wait at a crossing for a safe place to walk, or following someone on a mission that is not good.

Realism sucks!

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Another thing is the camera angle when in any vehicle, it's not directly behind but to the left. Now I have to drive in 1st person mode which defeats the point of getting those fantastic looking vehicles because all you see is the bonnet (and you cannot tell if you are about to explode in this view, as I have found out in missions). Plus as for lighting, for a added gripe does the game sometimes look almost black and white in some weather conditions?

So it's slightly to the left? It's supposed to make it easier to handle the car. Because you're sitting on the left side, not directly in the middle.

And when running out into the street, look around first!

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I do understand that your not very happy about the game. Specially the driving and handling, it's hard, I agree. But you said you want to take perfect handlings through turns, it's possible. Just a lot harder than before. That doesn't mean the game sucks, the game is just harder to get used to, that's it. The size of the city is huge, GTA III had a good size, and I must ask a question. Does anybody see anything that was in GTA III, in GTA IV? Landmarks, streets etc.

But I personally like the size of the city, I like cruising around with a huge map to explore, I know this is personally my opinion. And you shouldn't be that hard on the game, give it another try, the game have realism in it, it's not that bad, just try to work out the controller and stuff. :)

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I hope that is the case. Tonight will be the first night I am really going to be able to sit and play for a few hours straight, so we'll see how it goes.

I am not putting down the whole game at all. The graphics are phenomenal and the city is so expansive and intricately designed.

I am not sure how mods work, but if there ever is one down the line I would be wishing for better handling and lighting.

The new controls and camera angles I will get used to. I have no doubt I will enjoy this game but its just like anything else... you get used to how things are and then when it changes, it is a frustrating process to go through.

ie the lame quarterback view and throw in madden

quake 4 being slow as piss compared to q3

tiger woods 08 putting is for the birds

james bond multiplayer is horrible and hard to look at anything

Game is still good so anyone on the fence about buying it, I say absolutely buy one today. The game engine is great and R* can only make things better as we go forward.

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I feel like I may need to make a video showing me driving, even in the hard missions, to show that you just suck.

There is nothing wrong with the game, you just can't play.

I'm not sure if you've ever actually driven a real vehicle before, but you have to use your head, when you know there's a turn coming up, you have to slow down, if your brain can't comprehend that a react fast enough to slow down before going through a turn, that's your own fault, not the games.

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I feel like I may need to make a video showing me driving, even in the hard missions, to show that you just suck.

There is nothing wrong with the game, you just can't play.

I'm not sure if you've ever actually driven a real vehicle before, but you have to use your head, when you know there's a turn coming up, you have to slow down, if your brain can't comprehend that a react fast enough to slow down before going through a turn, that's your own fault, not the games.

Why don't you make a video there champ. I didn't say it was the games fault.

I SAID IT WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE PREVIOUS INSTALLMENTS of GTA. If you don't agree with that then maybe you should pull your head out of your ass. The driving i'm sure will be fine, it was just an initial dissapointment that they changed the physics for one of the bests parts of the game.

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I feel like I may need to make a video showing me driving, even in the hard missions, to show that you just suck.

There is nothing wrong with the game, you just can't play.

I'm not sure if you've ever actually driven a real vehicle before, but you have to use your head, when you know there's a turn coming up, you have to slow down, if your brain can't comprehend that a react fast enough to slow down before going through a turn, that's your own fault, not the games.

Why don't you make a video there champ. I didn't say it was the games fault.

I SAID IT WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE PREVIOUS INSTALLMENTS of GTA. If you don't agree with that then maybe you should pull your head out of your ass. The driving i'm sure will be fine, it was just an initial dissapointment that they changed the physics for one of the bests parts of the game.

Games EVOLVE, core GTA fans are sick and tired of the mindless driving of the previous installments.

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I feel like I may need to make a video showing me driving, even in the hard missions, to show that you just suck.

There is nothing wrong with the game, you just can't play.

I'm not sure if you've ever actually driven a real vehicle before, but you have to use your head, when you know there's a turn coming up, you have to slow down, if your brain can't comprehend that a react fast enough to slow down before going through a turn, that's your own fault, not the games.

Why don't you make a video there champ. I didn't say it was the games fault.

I SAID IT WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE PREVIOUS INSTALLMENTS of GTA. If you don't agree with that then maybe you should pull your head out of your ass. The driving i'm sure will be fine, it was just an initial dissapointment that they changed the physics for one of the bests parts of the game.

Games EVOLVE, core GTA fans are sick and tired of the mindless driving of the previous installments.

Sorry... I didn't realize you were the spokesman for the GTA core. Does that come with a nice salary or just a lack of a life and girlfriend?

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