Gerard Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Thanks azn - it's really great to see that some people actually think about things, and are willing to change their opinions about stuff. There are a lot of people here that will never change their minds, and will fight against anyone that disagrees with them. Not because they're wrong, just because they disagree. Your last paragraph is so true - most people can only explain homosexuality, and explain how it is different, but they can't say why it shouldn't happen. All they can say is its not normal, but what is normal? I think in the world, more people are gay than have ginger hair - does that make it abnormal? Should it be banned? And let's not forget that I was born this way, so it's very normal and natural. Getting your hair cut or wearing makeup is a lot less natural. So is driving a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Your last paragraph is so true - most people can only explain homosexuality, and explain how it is different, but they can't say why it shouldn't happen. All they can say is its not normal, but what is normal? I think in the world, more people are gay than have ginger hair - does that make it abnormal? Should it be banned? And let's not forget that I was born this way, so it's very normal and natural. Getting your hair cut or wearing makeup is a lot less natural. So is driving a car. In a sociological perspective, gay marriage isn't considered one of the norms in our society at this particular time. Although, it's not considered a taboo, but more or less in between mores and folkways. I think within the next 10 to 20 years it'll be considered a folkway. "Normal" can be perceived in many different ways depending on our societies culture and the views of those giving such opinions. "Normal" to one person might not be "normal" to another person, so you can't really ask, "What is normal", because "normal" could be many different things. You're view (not definition) on the word "normal" is a very open view and if more people thought that way then I think society would be a hell of a lot better, but society's ignorance doesn't allow certain people to think that way until they're faced with some sort of social conflict such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 That was my point - why is it socially unacceptable, why is it not considered normal? What excluded it from your culture's social norms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azn Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 That's another thing though; the word 'Normal' has TOO much of a generalized explanation that people have decided to branch off and define it themselves - I doubt many, if any look up the word Normal in the dictionary now. Is it then because of this that unfortunately homosexuality and gay marriage comes under this statement that unfortunately many believe in, which I stated previously that many think it's just wrong without a reason at all or one that doesn't involve It's and wrong in the same sentence next to each other. It is probably because straight to gay ratio is out of balance that people don't tend to look into this issue. But I've seen now that this generation can accept people for who they are, as 'coming out the closet' used to be something that would spread like mad but now for example, people on the internet can say 'Yes, I am gay' and get flamed off the internet.. However, about accepting people for who they are, if we as people never singled out homosexuality, this would have never been an issue! (Not blaming anyone in particular) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 That was my point - why is it socially unacceptable, why is it not considered normal? What excluded it from your culture's social norms? For those that don't find it normal think that way because of their own personal beliefs and views. They might have been raised a certain way that influenced their opinion on that. As for our culture's social norms, they were mainly constructed during the birth of the US government. Some of which were reflected from the UK and other parts of the world. As cultures get older though, these social norms begin to fluctuate. This whole thing with gay marriage is a fluctuation and it probably won't ever be steady, but it will be more commonly accepted as time goes on. This is sort of like how divorce was socially unacceptable at one point because the structure of one's family was one of the most important things in life, but as the structure of the family grew, divorce was more commonly accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Ray Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) It's against the bible. It says that marriage is the union between A MAN AND A WOMAN where the man shall leave his mother and father, and be united to his wife. Yes, I am a Christian and I do hold strong christian values. That is what I believe, and it is not meant to be offensive to any athiest, jewish, etc., but is simply my opinion and belief. Edited January 28, 2009 by raybob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz The Great Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 However, the bible shouldn't dictate non-Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azn Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's against the bible.It says that marriage is the union between A MAN AND A WOMAN where the man shall leave his mother and father, and be united to his wife. Yes, I am a Christian and I do hold strong christian values. That is what I believe, and it is not meant to be offensive to any athiest, jewish, etc., but is simply my opinion and belief. You are entitled to your own opinion and whatever, but did you read over the replies before making your own? I mean, because it indirectly says no in the bible, does that mean they are also against any form of love? Of course, people argue about the bible and what it says, but I'm not going to go into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Ray Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) However, the bible shouldn't dictate non-Christians. I didn't say it should (Though I do believe it should ), just said that was my reasoning. You are entitled to your own opinion and whatever, but did you read over the replies before making your own? I mean, because it indirectly says no in the bible, does that mean they are also against any form of love? Of course, people argue about the bible and what it says, but I'm not going to go into that. (This is what I believe:) God did not create women to do it with women and men to marry men. He created Adam and Eve, intending it to always be Men and Women. (Sorry if I seem a little forward, these are just my opinions, not meant to insult any others) Edited January 28, 2009 by raybob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 However, the bible shouldn't dictate non-Christians. I didn't say it should (Though I do believe it should ), just said that was my reasoning. Ok, well you just said it now. Good job. You are entitled to your own opinion and whatever, but did you read over the replies before making your own? I mean, because it indirectly says no in the bible, does that mean they are also against any form of love? Of course, people argue about the bible and what it says, but I'm not going to go into that. (This is what I believe:) God did not create women to do it with women and men to marry men. He created Adam and Eve, intending it to always be Men and Women. (Sorry if I seem a little forward, these are just my opinions, not meant to insult any others) Ok, if it's supposed to be men and women, then you go by your own beliefs and marry a women (provided that one would actually want to marry you). Do you listen to other religious views from Jews or Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Ray Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 However, the bible shouldn't dictate non-Christians. I didn't say it should (Though I do believe it should ), just said that was my reasoning. Ok, well you just said it now. Good job. You are entitled to your own opinion and whatever, but did you read over the replies before making your own? I mean, because it indirectly says no in the bible, does that mean they are also against any form of love? Of course, people argue about the bible and what it says, but I'm not going to go into that. (This is what I believe:) God did not create women to do it with women and men to marry men. He created Adam and Eve, intending it to always be Men and Women. (Sorry if I seem a little forward, these are just my opinions, not meant to insult any others) Ok, if it's supposed to be men and women, then you go by your own beliefs and marry a women (provided that one would actually want to marry you). Do you listen to other religious views from Jews or Muslims? No, but I don't attack them, and I would appreciate it if you would stop attacking me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azn Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 However, the bible shouldn't dictate non-Christians. I didn't say it should (Though I do believe it should ), just said that was my reasoning. Ok, well you just said it now. Good job. You are entitled to your own opinion and whatever, but did you read over the replies before making your own? I mean, because it indirectly says no in the bible, does that mean they are also against any form of love? Of course, people argue about the bible and what it says, but I'm not going to go into that. (This is what I believe:) God did not create women to do it with women and men to marry men. He created Adam and Eve, intending it to always be Men and Women. (Sorry if I seem a little forward, these are just my opinions, not meant to insult any others) Ok, if it's supposed to be men and women, then you go by your own beliefs and marry a women (provided that one would actually want to marry you). Do you listen to other religious views from Jews or Muslims? No, but I don't attack them, and I would appreciate it if you would stop attacking me. We're not attacking you. You came the this forum with an aggressive attitude about your opinions and beliefs and we responded in a similar manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 No, but I don't attack them, and I would appreciate it if you would stop attacking me. You don't attack them...hmmm. Well homosexuals don't have the same beliefs as you...but you're saying that they can't get married. So you're attacking their beliefs. What beliefs of yours am I attacking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azn Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm curious. If you were to know of a man who was gay, and was Christian, how would your belief and view stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm curious. If you were to know of a man who was gay, and was Christian, how would your belief and view stand? I'm not sure if you're asking me, but I personally think that gay Christians are going against their religion, which I don't think is right. Although, I think they should be allowed to marry if they want to. Why join a group if you don't agree with their beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azn Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm curious. If you were to know of a man who was gay, and was Christian, how would your belief and view stand? I'm not sure if you're asking me, but I personally think that gay Christians are going against their religion, which I don't think is right. Although, I think they should be allowed to marry if they want to. Why join a group if you don't agree with their beliefs? I was asking raybob, but he's gone so.. You are right though, but I am curious to hear his POV on this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Inferno Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 So, it's not okay to disagree with some aspects of your chosen faith? Perhaps the person in question was Catholic all of his or her life, but just so happens to be attracted to the same sex? This may seem like having your cake and eating it, too, but I personally don't know that many people who follow the Bible to a T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 So, it's not okay to disagree with some aspects of your chosen faith? Perhaps the person in question was Catholic all of his or her life, but just so happens to be attracted to the same sex? This may seem like having your cake and eating it, too, but I personally don't know that many people who follow the Bible to a T. Being attracted to the same sex is one thing, but getting married is involving the church 100%. Not only that but most of the things people do that are against the Christian faith, such as stealing, could be forgiven because it could be a one time thing and that's it. Getting married as a gay couple is a continuous thing and is a sin (obviously not a horrible one because it didn't make the top 10 list ). Therefore not only is the couple sinning, but also is causing those marrying them to sin. Allowing a gay Christian couple to marry is inadvertently forcing another to sin...and I don't think that's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Inferno Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 So, it's not okay to disagree with some aspects of your chosen faith? Perhaps the person in question was Catholic all of his or her life, but just so happens to be attracted to the same sex? This may seem like having your cake and eating it, too, but I personally don't know that many people who follow the Bible to a T. Being attracted to the same sex is one thing, but getting married is involving the church 100%. Not only that but most of the things people do that are against the Christian faith, such as stealing, could be forgiven because it could be a one time thing and that's it. Getting married as a gay couple is a continuous thing and is a sin (obviously not a horrible one because it didn't make the top 10 list ). Therefore not only is the couple sinning, but also is causing those marrying them to sin. Allowing a gay Christian couple to marry is inadvertently forcing another to sin...and I don't think that's right. How about if the marriage didn't involve the church? Aren't politicians and the like allowed to marry through the courts? (I could be mistaken, but I think I've heard of something like that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 How about if the marriage didn't involve the church? Aren't politicians and the like allowed to marry through the courts? (I could be mistaken, but I think I've heard of something like that.) Yes, they can do that, but I believe those marrying them in court might have to be Christian as well or, if not, might be coincidentally and also inadvertently causing them to sin. But that sort of brings the problem back up as to where they'll get married...Vegas I guess. I could be wrong about that though. Being a Christian that follows a path that constantly goes against the Christian faith might not be considered a Christian or they'd be considered a subculture of the Christian faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Inferno Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 How about if the marriage didn't involve the church? Aren't politicians and the like allowed to marry through the courts? (I could be mistaken, but I think I've heard of something like that.) Yes, they can do that, but I believe those marrying them in court might have to be Christian as well or, if not, might be coincidentally and also inadvertently causing them to sin. But that sort of brings the problem back up as to where they'll get married...Vegas I guess. I could be wrong about that though. Being a Christian that follows a path that constantly goes against the Christian faith might not be considered a Christian or they'd be considered a subculture of the Christian faith. You mean how practically every branch of Christianity was created? Granted, I don't think any of them were created out of a desire for gay marriage, but how do you think we have divorces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwood Butcher Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) You mean how practically every branch of Christianity was created? Granted, I don't think any of them were created out of a desire for gay marriage, but how do you think we have divorces? That's a little different. You don't go to the church to get a divorce and even that is a one time thing that could be forgiven because it only happens once (per marriage ). Gay marriage is a constant unless there is a divorce. It's like trying to be forgiven for stealing as you're pick-pocketing the priest. If there is a branch of Christianity for homosexuals...then don't you think they should be apart of that branch? Edited January 28, 2009 by Harwood Butcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM™ Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't really care about Gay Marriage to be honest. I accept those who are gay, because, to me, I think everyone deserves to be treated equally, even if they have different sexual preferences to each other. I've seen quite a few students in my college that are gay, and obviously, their enjoying themselves. Whenever I'm with my mates, and they see a gay person kissing, they go and just say "Oh fuck, that's fucking horrible!", or they would say "Ewwww, he's gai!". Although they laugh at them, I believe the reason they laugh is because they can't find love themselves, even though they're straight guys who like women. Some people are assholes to be honest when it comes to those types of moments, they just can't keep it to themselves. Really, they can't. Most of my mates aren't really use to seeing gay people kissing, because most of them have been raised in an area or a family that don't see fit to gay people. I've been raised exactly the same way, but I haven't got a problem with any gay people, I just think that as long as that person is happy with his/her partner, then so be it. I just think happiness is the first thing you'd see in relationships first before anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Pie Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't like gay marriage. I'm not into bashing at homosexual people, but gay people are, for one thing, "products of society"; OG Loc wanted to be gangsta just because he was exposed to CJ and his mates, and there are circumstances that a buy would end up gender-bending, given that his exposure to all things girly went sour, as in he begins to play Barbie dolls with his sisters or something. Sorry if I flamed or something, but I'm just disgusted at same-sex marriage, I don't see anything good (genuine love or something like that) in it, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franswurst Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't like gay marriage. I'm not into bashing at homosexual people, but gay people are, for one thing, "products of society"; OG Loc wanted to be gangsta just because he was exposed to CJ and his mates, and there are circumstances that a buy would end up gender-bending, given that his exposure to all things girly went sour, as in he begins to play Barbie dolls with his sisters or something.Sorry if I flamed or something, but I'm just disgusted at same-sex marriage, I don't see anything good (genuine love or something like that) in it, you know. I know you have your opinion, and that's fine. But how can you say that there can't be genuine love in a gay marriage? There can be just as little or as much love between two people of the same sex, as between two of the opposite, and you can't discredit that because you don't know. And it seems like you're saying that a normal marriage is always based on love, and perfect, but how many marriages fail? About half of all people getting married end up getting a divorce, even though they probably had genuine love when they got married. Personally, I am for same sex marriage, but mainly for the reason that I don't care what other people do, if they want to love a person of the same sex, then so be it, if they want to marry them, fine by me as well. Everybody should have the same rights and the freedom to do what they want, whether I approve or like it is another matter (in this case I do approve, but I'm also talking in general). Who am I to say what other people can and can not do? Love and marry whoever you want, as long as you don't force your sexuality onto someone else I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now