My Ups and Downs about Obama

[Harwood Butcher]

OK then.....

I think one of Obama's strong points is his demeanor and willingness to work hard.

Ok, so you think Obama is gonna be a good president. AWESOME!!!

[azn]

Also, I don't think Gay Marriage is right, because it's really just unnatural, and not meant to be that way.

You're basing this belief on the Bible. I know there's nothing stopping you from that, and shouldn't be, but think of reality and allowing homosexual couples to experience the best day of their lives. Honestly, I'd like a reason longer then one sentence without involving the bible.

And no, I don't have anything against gays, I just don't think they should be able to get married. Like I said, marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman. Civil Union or whatever, is fine, just not traditional marriage.

Refer to my quote-reply above.

[Harwood Butcher]

Also, I don't think Gay Marriage is right, because it's really just unnatural, and not meant to be that way.

You're basing this belief on the Bible. I know there's nothing stopping you from that, and shouldn't be, but think of reality and allowing homosexual couples to experience the best day of their lives. Honestly, I'd like a reason longer then one sentence without involving the bible.

And no, I don't have anything against gays, I just don't think they should be able to get married. Like I said, marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman. Civil Union or whatever, is fine, just not traditional marriage.

Refer to my quote-reply above.

Ok, I tried streering him away from that in here since there's a topic about it, but now you're bringing it back in here.

Why do you think gay couples should be allowed to get married?

[Mpilk901]

One thing I like about Obama is that he is a very determined person and I really do think he will bring change. He's also a great figure for America. Great smile and is young. Maybe we'll also see a decrease in racism too.

[azn]

Ok, I tried steering him away from that in here since there's a topic about it, but now you're bringing it back in here.

Why do you think gay couples should be allowed to get married?

1. To fight for the rights of gay couples to be together, fighting for the rights to get married is the next big step. Look, if the Government says yes to gay couples, and say no to them getting married, what's the point in that? It's like Gerard's previous example in the Gay Marriage thread "We can have sex, just not with each other, whats the point in that?"

2. In addition, couples, whether gay or straight can obviously decide not to marry. However, for straight couples, to know the choice that getting married will always be there, for gay couples it's not the same. I think gay couples should have this same right and satisfaction that they are no different different and can get married without hassle or ending up on the news or being frowned upon on the internet, let alone putting up with the law.

But let's keep this in the Gay Marriage now, as this one's more about Politics..

[_Ray]

One thing I like about Obama is that he is a very determined person and I really do think he will bring change. He's also a great figure for America. Great smile and is young. Maybe we'll also see a decrease in racism too.

He does seem very determined and clearly has great social skills.....

[Harwood Butcher]

Ok, I tried steering him away from that in here since there's a topic about it, but now you're bringing it back in here.

Why do you think gay couples should be allowed to get married?

1. To fight for the rights of gay couples to be together, fighting for the rights to get married is the next big step. Look, if the Government says yes to gay couples, and say no to them getting married, what's the point in that? It's like Gerard's previous example in the Gay Marriage thread "We can have sex, just not with each other, whats the point in that?"

2. In addition, couples, whether gay or straight can obviously decide not to marry. However, for straight couples, to know the choice that getting married will always be there, for gay couples it's not the same. I think gay couples should have this same right and satisfaction that they are no different different and can get married without hassle or ending up on the news or being frowned upon on the internet, let alone putting up with the law.

But let's keep this in the Gay Marriage now, as this one's more about Politics..

Ok, besides all of that, what other reason do you have?

[Urbanoutlaw]

Except for the first post I skipped over the first six pages.

Short answer, no. This guy is potentially the worst president in US history. The only person who told me not to vote

for Obama is... Obama. He wants to spend insane amounts of money & worry about paying for it later. He wants to

give "tax rebates" to people who don't even make enough to be liable for taxes (return implies you paid anything to

begin w/) & is obsessed w/ expanding government. He wants to "bankrupt" the coal industry (his own words) but has

no suggestion on how to power the country while we get wind/solar sorted & in place. Then he wants to impose epic

taxes to pay for it all (but still won't say exactly what). Like most liberals he refuses to accept that when YOU work &

YOU make a dollar, it's YOURS!!!

Did he ever bother sending his OWN brother that $20? Did he ever get his aunt's immigration status straightened out

or get her moved into decent housing? "My Brother's keeper" my ass. Worry about your own life, I'll look after my

own thank you.

If you were too dumb to actually listen to this guy while he was running for office then you deserve what you get for

voting for him. You don't vote for someone because of their skin color, that's retarded. You vote for them because

they will do a better job. Any sane & rational person who actually listened would know it's not Obama.

I would also like to point out that Hitler's strongest point was charisma.

[azn]

Ok, besides all of that, what other reason do you have?

To belong - like every other person. To stop this yes this, no that. People shouldn't be saying no because of their personality traits, color, whatever. Really, and apart from this, I don't have another reason.

But, the most important question is; Why are you saying no to another person's marriage? (Not asking you, of course.)

[Mpilk901]

You don't vote for someone because of their skin color, that's retarded. You vote for them because

they will do a better job.

It seems like over half of America did just that. I saw Sky News doing interviews with people on Times Square; "Why do you want Obama?" "Erm, because he's going to bring change and I like him."

That's one thing that annoyed me, they all said "He'll bring change.". Well ok, but how will he do it?

I don't know much about what either president wanted to do, mainly because I wasn't voting nor do I live in America.

[draftermatt]

Did he ever bother sending his OWN brother that $20? Did he ever get his aunt's immigration status straightened out

or get her moved into decent housing? "My Brother's keeper" my ass. Worry about your own life, I'll look after my

own thank you.

If you were too dumb to actually listen to this guy while he was running for office then you deserve what you get for

voting for him. You don't vote for someone because of their skin color, that's retarded. You vote for them because

they will do a better job. Any sane & rational person who actually listened would know it's not Obama.

I would also like to point out that Hitler's strongest point was charisma.

I understand your concerns above what I didn't include in the quote but how does the rest of this make any difference? McCain cheated on his 1st wife but that didn't make any difference in how I voted.

As far as the "sane and rational person" comment, I don't know what to say to that.

And the Hitler comment, I can't imagine you're trying to do more than just stir the pot because frankly that has no meaning to anything. I really don't think because Obama has "Charisma" that he's going to be the next Hitler.

[Franswurst]

Except for the first post I skipped over the first six pages.

Short answer, no. This guy is potentially the worst president in US history. The only person who told me not to vote

for Obama is... Obama. He wants to spend insane amounts of money & worry about paying for it later. He wants to

give "tax rebates" to people who don't even make enough to be liable for taxes (return implies you paid anything to

begin w/) & is obsessed w/ expanding government. He wants to "bankrupt" the coal industry (his own words) but has

no suggestion on how to power the country while we get wind/solar sorted & in place. Then he wants to impose epic

taxes to pay for it all (but still won't say exactly what). Like most liberals he refuses to accept that when YOU work &

YOU make a dollar, it's YOURS!!!

Did he ever bother sending his OWN brother that $20? Did he ever get his aunt's immigration status straightened out

or get her moved into decent housing? "My Brother's keeper" my ass. Worry about your own life, I'll look after my

own thank you.

If you were too dumb to actually listen to this guy while he was running for office then you deserve what you get for

voting for him. You don't vote for someone because of their skin color, that's retarded. You vote for them because

they will do a better job. Any sane & rational person who actually listened would know it's not Obama.

I would also like to point out that Hitler's strongest point was charisma.

Why the hell do you Americans always have to bring Hitler into an argument? All you are really doing is stirring the pot like draftermatt says, that comment has absolutely no place here, and just makes you and your argument look weak. I mean lots of people have Charisma does that mean they are all like Hitler and will try and take over the world and do horrible things to certain races?

For the whole Obama wants to spend so much money argument, all I can say again is, Bush spends 10 Trillion dollars on a War that was total bullshit from the beginning because everybody around the World knew that there were no fecking Weapons of Mass Destruction. Yet then people complain when Obama wants to spend (I don't remember how much like 1 Trillion Dollars) of money the US still doesn't have in order to try and help the economy.

It is stupid to say he';; potentially be the worst president in History because no one can say that until his four years are over, yes he is young and he is naive, and he may want to do things without really knowing a good way to do that, but he has lots of good senior advisers, and he has 4 years to make a difference. It could turn out that Obama is the BEST president the US has ever had.

I think if you wanna talk about potential worst presidents George W. Bush should be up there rather than Obama.

[Bear]

I would say Hoover was a terrible president too, he didn't care that people were poor and homeless because of the crash.

We won't know if he is terrible until the four years are up, he has only just started. Also most politicans have charisma otherwise how will they charm people into voting for them if they have the personality of a dead fish.

[_Ray]

You know, it's too bad we can't just resurrect Reagan... he'd fix this country in no time....

[rappo]

Reagan forced his ideals on foreign countries even more than Bush did! He's lucky America was in a "red scare" otherwise he wouldn't have been so loved.

[_Ray]

Reagan forced his ideals on foreign countries even more than Bush did! He's lucky America was in a "red scare" otherwise he wouldn't have been so loved.

Yeah, he got rid of all the nuclear bombs.

Edited February 2, 2009 by raybob95

[Spaz The Great]

Well, maybe a disagreeable post, but at least we're back on topic.

Also, I don't think Gay Marriage is right, because it's really just unnatural, and not meant to be that way. And no, I don't have anything against gays, I just don't think they should be able to get married. Like I said, marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman. Civil Union or whatever, is fine, just not traditional marriage.

Also, just out of curiosity, who voted Obama will never be a good president?

I voted that he will in a few years.

Homosexuality happens in nature, with absolutely no human involvement. You can't call that unnatural.

You don't vote for someone because of their skin color, that's retarded. You vote for them because

they will do a better job.

It seems like over half of America did just that. I saw Sky News doing interviews with people on Times Square; "Why do you want Obama?" "Erm, because he's going to bring change and I like him."

That's one thing that annoyed me, they all said "He'll bring change.". Well ok, but how will he do it?

I don't know much about what either president wanted to do, mainly because I wasn't voting nor do I live in America.

Better than questioning how he'll bring change, how about questioning the fact that "change" does not mean "improvement".

And the Hitler comment, I can't imagine you're trying to do more than just stir the pot because frankly that has no meaning to anything. I really don't think because Obama has "Charisma" that he's going to be the next Hitler.

Why the hell do you Americans always have to bring Hitler into an argument? All you are really doing is stirring the pot like draftermatt says, that comment has absolutely no place here, and just makes you and your argument look weak. I mean lots of people have Charisma does that mean they are all like Hitler and will try and take over the world and do horrible things to certain races?

So both of you entirely misunderstood his point. Instead of flipping out, why not realize he was not even remotely saying that Obama will do what Hitler did? All he is saying is, to the people saying, "Oh, he will probably be good because he's got charisma!", is that charisma doesn't = good intentions, it just means good leader.

For the whole Obama wants to spend so much money argument, all I can say again is, Bush spends 10 Trillion dollars on a War that was total bullshit from the beginning because everybody around the World knew that there were no fecking Weapons of Mass Destruction. Yet then people complain when Obama wants to spend (I don't remember how much like 1 Trillion Dollars) of money the US still doesn't have in order to try and help the economy.

Also, I don't see anyone saying that Bush is a better president than Obama. To say that him being better than Bush makes him a good president is like saying I have more money than a homeless man so I'm rich. That's just comparative, and doesn't mean crap.

[Dirty Harry]

Except for the first post I skipped over the first six pages.

Short answer, no. This guy is potentially the worst president in US history. The only person who told me not to vote

for Obama is... Obama. He wants to spend insane amounts of money & worry about paying for it later. He wants to

give "tax rebates" to people who don't even make enough to be liable for taxes (return implies you paid anything to

begin w/) & is obsessed w/ expanding government. He wants to "bankrupt" the coal industry (his own words) but has

no suggestion on how to power the country while we get wind/solar sorted & in place. Then he wants to impose epic

taxes to pay for it all (but still won't say exactly what). Like most liberals he refuses to accept that when YOU work &

YOU make a dollar, it's YOURS!!!

Did he ever bother sending his OWN brother that $20? Did he ever get his aunt's immigration status straightened out

or get her moved into decent housing? "My Brother's keeper" my ass. Worry about your own life, I'll look after my

own thank you.

If you were too dumb to actually listen to this guy while he was running for office then you deserve what you get for

voting for him. You don't vote for someone because of their skin color, that's retarded. You vote for them because

they will do a better job. Any sane & rational person who actually listened would know it's not Obama.

I would also like to point out that Hitler's strongest point was charisma.

Seriously, under the shit your country is going through now and the shit post WW1 Germany wasa suffering do you really doubt people voted in these guys because they promised hope and change?

[Franswurst]

And the Hitler comment, I can't imagine you're trying to do more than just stir the pot because frankly that has no meaning to anything. I really don't think because Obama has "Charisma" that he's going to be the next Hitler.

Why the hell do you Americans always have to bring Hitler into an argument? All you are really doing is stirring the pot like draftermatt says, that comment has absolutely no place here, and just makes you and your argument look weak. I mean lots of people have Charisma does that mean they are all like Hitler and will try and take over the world and do horrible things to certain races?

So both of you entirely misunderstood his point. Instead of flipping out, why not realize he was not even remotely saying that Obama will do what Hitler did? All he is saying is, to the people saying, "Oh, he will probably be good because he's got charisma!", is that charisma doesn't = good intentions, it just means good leader.

Being German, I'm sure you can understand how its easy for me to misinterpret comments like that, seeing how his whole post was arguing against Obama, mentioning Hitler in a Charisma comparison came across more in a negative sense (it sort of reminded me, or sounded like the argument "Obama sounds like Osama" so that's why he'll do bad things) than anything else. But I get what you're saying about how he meant it.

For the whole Obama wants to spend so much money argument, all I can say again is, Bush spends 10 Trillion dollars on a War that was total bullshit from the beginning because everybody around the World knew that there were no fecking Weapons of Mass Destruction. Yet then people complain when Obama wants to spend (I don't remember how much like 1 Trillion Dollars) of money the US still doesn't have in order to try and help the economy.

Also, I don't see anyone saying that Bush is a better president than Obama. To say that him being better than Bush makes him a good president is like saying I have more money than a homeless man so I'm rich. That's just comparative, and doesn't mean crap.

Here is where you misunderstood me I think. (plus I assume you quoted the wrong part, you wanted to quote my paragraph below that right?) Anyway, I wasn't saying that Obama is a better President than Bush or vice versa, I was just saying that you can't say Obama could potentially be the worst president in history when the man has only been in office 2 weeks. However, Bush served his two terms and there you can say that he was probably one of the worst presidents in history because look at the state the US is in now.

[Harwood Butcher]

Homosexuality happens in nature, with absolutely no human involvement. You can't call that unnatural.

To be perfectly honest, all you guys are doing is attacking his wording. Instead of someone saying "not natural", they could simply say "not normal" or to avoid even more loop-holes, "It is not a norm in today's society." You can't argue that that's not true and say they're wrong.

I think that this whole "gay marriage" subject is just way too controversial and it's gotten to the point where people have restated the same shit over and over again. Why doesn't someone just close the gay marriage topic, pin it and ban further conversation about it. Everything that could be said about it has been said about it. Just let it go.

[Spaz The Great]

Homosexuality happens in nature, with absolutely no human involvement. You can't call that unnatural.

To be perfectly honest, all you guys are doing is attacking his wording. Instead of someone saying "not natural", they could simply say "not normal" or to avoid even more loop-holes, "It is not a norm in today's society." You can't argue that that's not true and say they're wrong.

I think that this whole "gay marriage" subject is just way too controversial and it's gotten to the point where people have restated the same shit over and over again. Why doesn't someone just close the gay marriage topic, pin it and ban further conversation about it. Everything that could be said about it has been said about it. Just let it go.

Actually, no. A lot of people say that it is not natural because by nature it is meant to be male and female((because that's how reproduction works)).

And about it not being normal, how is it not a normal now? There are so many gay people who have no care in the world about what people think. There's so many homosexuals "out of the closet". There's gay days, gay parades, etc. It isn't exactly taboo anymore. Or even at all...

[Harwood Butcher]

Actually, no. A lot of people say that it is not natural because by nature it is meant to be male and female((because that's how reproduction works)).

Like I said, you're just attacking his wording.

And about it not being normal, how is it not a normal now? There are so many gay people who have no care in the world about what people think. There's so many homosexuals "out of the closet". There's gay days, gay parades, etc. It isn't exactly taboo anymore. Or even at all...

If it was a norm in society then gay couples would be able to marry without a problem right now.

Just because a bunch of gay people could get together on certain days and have parades, that doesn't mean that their way of life is considered a norm in our society. I never heard of people not being allowed to have parades because of certain aspects about them.

The KKK gets together everyday...that doesn't mean what they do is a norm in society.

[Spaz The Great]

Actually, no. A lot of people say that it is not natural because by nature it is meant to be male and female((because that's how reproduction works)).

Like I said, you're just attacking his wording.

And about it not being normal, how is it not a normal now? There are so many gay people who have no care in the world about what people think. There's so many homosexuals "out of the closet". There's gay days, gay parades, etc. It isn't exactly taboo anymore. Or even at all...

If it was a norm in society then gay couples would be able to marry without a problem right now.

Just because a bunch of gay people could get together on certain days and have parades, that doesn't mean that their way of life is considered a norm in our society. I never heard of people not being allowed to have parades because of certain aspects about them.

The KKK gets together everyday...that doesn't mean what they do is a norm in society.

That isn't attacking wording. People try to say that either because the bible says so, or because it can't cause reproduction, that it isn't NATURAL. Not normal. Natural. Natural and normal are in no way synonyms.

And a lack of gay marriage doesn't mean it isn't a norm. That has to do with it being against Christian beliefs. If something is an everyday item/sight/occurrence/etc. then it can be considered normal in society. They can't marry, though, because Christians believe it is unnatural and immoral.

[Harwood Butcher]

That isn't attacking wording. People try to say that either because the bible says so, or because it can't cause reproduction, that it isn't NATURAL. Not normal. Natural. Natural and normal are in no way synonyms.

You're looking at "natural" as it's literal meaning, but you're able to use "natural" in place of "normal". It works sort of like slang, but not as elaborate.

I've never seen "bad" listed under synonyms for "good", but some people use the word "bad" to mean "good".

And a lack of gay marriage doesn't mean it isn't a norm. That has to do with it being against Christian beliefs. If something is an everyday item/sight/occurrence/etc. then it can be considered normal in society. They can't marry, though, because Christians believe it is unnatural and immoral.

If you're saying that gay marriage is only rejected by Christians...THEN WHY THE HELL DON'T THEY GET MARRIED SOMEWHERE ELSE?!?!?!?!? If that's true, then they're creating their own problems.

[rappo]

What do you mean "somewhere else"? Since when is the United States of America a Christian state? And there are also laws about foreign marriages being recognized in the US, so that doesn't work anyway. That being said, Christianity is not the only religion that rejects homosexuality (as made apparent by the map provided earlier showing that you can get the death penalty in most Arab countries for open homosexuality). However, the great majority of dissent comes from religion - let it be Christianity, Islam, etc - and something tells me (the first amendment perhaps?) that all men are created equal and deserve the same natural rights, and that religion and state should be kept separate.

So for those against gay marriage: either you're saying that gay people should not be considered people at all, or you are saying that the Constitution can be freely broken.

Edited February 3, 2009 by rappo