Big Changes

[Gerard]

TGTAP is a nice forum - we have 11,000 members who are mostly keen on GTA, and a good line-up of decent staff who care about keeping the place clean.

However, I think we need to change to move up a gear - to become bigger we have to become better.

What's wrong with how we are now?

The most successful topics on the forum are things like "3 word story" and "Why did the chicken cross the road"; our members see winning arguments and being proven right as the best things to acheive; and the staff are here just to clean up messes.

This is fine, it has worked for TGTAP for years, and we're still a lot better than any other GTA forums, but if we changed our focus we could very easily become a hell of a lot better than we currently are.

What needs to change?

The focus of this forum seems to be on fun and games and arguments and things like that - not GTA. There are no rewards for helping out with GTA, and there is nothing to push people to post there. The staff should be leading by example and helping other members out, and showing that the 'cool' thing to be is knowledgable about GTA, rather than just silly games.

How could these changes happen?

I don't think any one person should lead this forum anymore. Yes there needs to be an owner (Chris), but most of the day-to-day decisions should be made by several staff members (working together in a team) with public discussion. A topic could be made about the possible changes (like this topic), and everyone in the forum will have a chance to say what they like about it, what they don't, and what might be an even better idea (like you can in this topic).

The changes Im talking about don't require admin panel access or anything special, I'm talking about a change in the culture of the forum. Persuasion, guidance and help are what we need, not bans and suspensions and rules.

We need to persuade people to post in the GTA sections about GTA

What would these changes achieve?

If we were more about GTA, then of course everyone who loves GTA is going to love it here. Anyone who needs to know anything can ask here, and get a series of useful and well-thought-out answers. Anyone who knows anything about GTA can come here and help people out and be respected for it.

We would have loads of GTA IV content by the time it launched, and we'd get massively popular with that. We'd have loads of downloads and a well-organised forum with perfect structure, rules and organisation. Everybody would have a say in how things are done, and we'd end up with a great system where we could all work together in the pursuit of GTA-related discussion.

What if we didn't change?

If we just kept going how we currently are, we would of course still survive. We have a decent formula for a medium-sized forum that has worked for us for years. But we can't really expect to grow. We could employ some more staff but we'd still just end up getting overcrowded, less attention would be payed to important parts of the forum and members would end up getting banned just for slightly annoying a moderator (see GTAForums).

I don't want us to end up small or shit like most other GTA forums, I really believe we can grow and improve.

These are my thoughts, and there are a few people that agree with me. However there are also some people that think TGTAP is fine as it is. This is not official policy or anything like this, these are my own suggestions.

I'd like to know what you all think about this, and if you have any suggestions for radically improving TGTAP Forums.

[K9 Krew]

Agreed. We need to spned less time posting random crap in Fun and Games Topics and more focusing on GTA and getting bigger. Look at GTA Junkies Forums for an example, They don't have a Fun and Games sub-forum, yet they are quite well known despite their low member count. Almost everything that is posted there is about GTA or Gaming.

[Wheelman101]

Agreed Also. It would be nice to see more Stunt videos too, well put together ones, or even a TGTAP collab, that wont die off in a week.

What if we didn't change?

If we just kept going how we currently are,

that or we would eventually become a spam filled forum that unnecessary stuff shows up..

[Jared]

I could not agree more with you Gerard, especially on the "and members would end up getting banned just for slightly annoying a moderator (see GTAForums)" section. It's important that we grow and expand, however we need to do it at a nice, calm, efficient rate where we aren't beginning to create cocky staff members or smart-arse members. Seeing as how many quadruplicated members there are on other forums (see GTAForums) we are probably the largest forums in "actual members that aren't fake/a robot or already registered" statistics.

I've notice also that we tend to be more "general discussion" then "general game help", which, your right, is something we need to work on.

[Dirty Harry]

Well, even if I am an active member in the Random Post Topic and I post more in the General Discussion then in the GTA sub forums, I have to agree. A GTA forum is a place for GTA players, or future GTA players to get information about the game. This forum has many people who know a lot about GTA, people that can help a lot in the site, if these people start making some guides or walkthroughs, even teories, the forum would be better.

[MishoM]

I agree. And Gerard and the staff know that I agree, and that I've agreed on this matter over and over again.

Changes need to happen. The only members I see posting in the GTA sections are the new members to the forum, who don't even stay here for long. That's a shame. We really need to change focus back onto GTA, and move away from the 10,000,000,000+ posts in the "Random Post lolz" topic, we can easily do this by:

• Getting rid of a couple forums that in my opinion are completely un-needed. For example, the warzone. This is the only forum I go to that actually has a place dedicated to members arguing. What the hell? Its almost as if we're encouraging arguments between members. We need to dump that, along with some of the stupid categorys that people just use to raise their post counts, or are for "forum games," (those could easily go in the lounge, we don't need a section for them as there shouldn't even be that many).
  
• We should come up with a system to reward the most helpful members (that help out the most with GTA). For example, you would only receive money for a post if you post in the GTA sections of the website. Or the staff would only promote members to Elite's if they've been helpful with GTA and haven't posted the shit out of the "Random" topic. Little things like this would really end up going along way, I'm sure I, and the rest of the staff could come up with more that would gradually encourage the forum to post and be much more active in topics regarding GTA (the FOCUS of the forum).
  
• We as staff need to also be more active in the GTA sections. It really isn't just the members not being in there, but the staff as well. If we we're to show a heavier presence in those forums, then I have no doubt in my mind the majority of active members would be in there regularly too.
  

The staff knows of the changes I think should be done, and they agree. Seeing as how so much of the community also agrees, I don't think changing up the forum will be a tough problem at all. Seeing as how GTA IV is on the horizon, our GTA forums will be more popular than ever!

[Slyde]

That is very true. But then again, GTA has gone extremely silent and nothing new have been make us want to talk heaps about GTA again. Maybe when GTA IV comes out we'll be back.

There is not much to talk about for San Andreas, we would of said all that 3 years ago.

There is not much to talk about for GTA IV because there is so little things we can talk about it.

There is not much to talk about for the other GTA games because it is going to be extremely hard to make a hot topic about GTA 3. Everything that was already discussed have been discussed.

[Highwire]

I totally agree. Im going to focus now on the GTA section. GTAF is pretty much shit. Its fucked and i know we dont wanna get fucked too.

[GTA Don]

I totally agree. Im going to focus now on the GTA section. GTAF is pretty much shit. Its fucked and i know we dont wanna get fucked too.

Yeah,I totally agree with what everyone has posted.This place is about GTA,not Fun & Games and shit.We can still keep the other stuff,but we have to focus more on Grand Theft Auto.

[TM™]

How could these changes happen?

I don't think any one person should lead this forum anymore. Yes there needs to be an owner (Chris), but most of the day-to-day decisions should be made by several staff members (working together in a team) with public discussion. A topic could be made about the possible changes (like this topic), and everyone in the forum will have a chance to say what they like about it, what they don't, and what might be an even better idea (like you can in this topic).

I like that Idea mostly because us staff members can have a different role rather than just moderating a forum. The Moderators/Super Moderators could start the Annual Awards we have each year, and they could inform Chris about it so he could make that Sub-Forum for the moderator who's in charge of the whole Annual Awards. This is a nice suggestion since Chris wouldn't have to do this (Except making that forum from the ACP) and it could give extra roles for other members of staff which would be good to see. We could also be given a chance to add Content to the site as well, which means it's not just Chris that's doing it, but other staff as well.

I also have to agree with what most of said about the Fun & Games forum since alot of us (Especially myself) go to that specific forum and go to the topic called "The Random Post Topic" which I believe is fun, but looking at the description of the topic, it says "Special gift for the 10 000th poster"; That itself can get a load of members posting in that topic because they would get a special prize. To be honest, I'm finding it a waste of time, but what is the prize first of all? A free version of GTA SA? Free version of Photoshop? Or is it just the forum based money because that to me, is seriously pointless to achieve.

Some members are also starting to post in the Warzone alot as well from all my times in this forum, and looking at all the topics, their usually around 5 worded posts, or usually they just make no sense, we need to move people away from the warzone and into General Discussions (Depending on if they don't like talking about GTA) or GTA itself. I think that could get us a more positive opinion from new members because one guy I believe posted and said this:

Well I've been on this forum for about 1 day and all I've seen in every topic I've been in, is flaming, swearing and ignorance.

If any members on here want to go to a real forum with nice people go to [link removed] this site is just aweful.

I was the one that removed the link. To be honest, he was right. Then after that ofcourse, some members come and post, and their posts where flamed based posting which drove this member away from us. I can't believe we, a large well known, good forum was said to be "awful". It really makes me feel that it's the staff's fault that we're giving examples to new members to be like this. Although the warzone is like that, most topics in their are okay, since the member could be saying sorry, or is trying to resolve the problem, but with noobish flaming happening, it's somehow driving a New Member away from us.

I for one think we seriously need to change in most places, to be honest, and I believe most of you would agree (Especially if you've joined a few months back).

[GTA Don]

How could these changes happen?

I don't think any one person should lead this forum anymore. Yes there needs to be an owner (Chris), but most of the day-to-day decisions should be made by several staff members (working together in a team) with public discussion. A topic could be made about the possible changes (like this topic), and everyone in the forum will have a chance to say what they like about it, what they don't, and what might be an even better idea (like you can in this topic).

I like that Idea mostly because us staff members can have a different role rather than just moderating a forum. The Moderators/Super Moderators could start the Annual Awards we have each year, and they could inform Chris about it so he could make that Sub-Forum for the moderator who's in charge of the whole Annual Awards. This is a nice suggestion since Chris wouldn't have to do this (Except making that forum from the ACP) and it could give extra roles for other members of staff which would be good to see. We could also be given a chance to add Content to the site as well, which means it's not just Chris that's doing it, but other staff as well.

I also have to agree with what most of said about the Fun & Games forum since alot of us (Especially myself) go to that specific forum and go to the topic called "The Random Post Topic" which I believe is fun, but looking at the description of the topic, it says "Special gift for the 10 000th poster"; That itself can get a load of members posting in that topic because they would get a special prize. To be honest, I'm finding it a waste of time, but what is the prize first of all? A free version of GTA SA? Free version of Photoshop? Or is it just the forum based money because that to me, is seriously pointless to achieve.

Some members are also starting to post in the Warzone alot as well from all my times in this forum, and looking at all the topics, their usually around 5 worded posts, or usually they just make no sense, we need to move people away from the warzone and into General Discussions (Depending on if they don't like talking about GTA) or GTA itself. I think that could get us a more positive opinion from new members because one guy I believe posted and said this:

Well I've been on this forum for about 1 day and all I've seen in every topic I've been in, is flaming, swearing and ignorance.

If any members on here want to go to a real forum with nice people go to [link removed] this site is just aweful.

I was the one that removed the link. To be honest, he was right. Then after that ofcourse, some members come and post, and their posts where flamed based posting which drove this member away from us. I can't believe we, a large well known, good forum was said to be "awful". It really makes me feel that it's the staff's fault that we're giving examples to new members to be like this. Although the warzone is like that, most topics in their are okay, since the member could be saying sorry, or is trying to resolve the problem, but with noobish flaming happening, it's somehow driving a New Member away from us.

I for one think we seriously need to change in most places, to be honest, and I believe most of you would agree (Especially if you've joined a few months back).

TM`s right.We need to stop this madness.

[Red_91]

Well I think we should keep things as it is to be honest, the warzone doesn't always create arguments. The 'What pisses you off' topic is good and I think the warzone should stay. Although we need to change some things.

The reason why not many people post in the 'GTAIV' section is because of the information we already have. I do admit I dont post there much because if theres a topic around and I want to add something new, I find that somebody already has said my point so I dont post there. I sort of roam the 'GTAIV' forum.

I cant really think of ways to encourage people posting in the 'GTA forums' without encouraging to spam to be honest. My idea would probably to freshen things up in the GTA forums, and maybe create a new forum (GTA Next) also some topics are just totally pointless in my opinion such as the 'GTAIV Wishlist topic', I think things need to change but not sure how.

[Pandora]

or are for "forum games," (those could easily go in the lounge, we don't need a section for them as there shouldn't even be that many).

Then you'd get +1 post for things like "Eggs." "Milk." "Deal or No Deal." and everyone would have a postcount of 6000 because of those forum games.

I also have to agree with what most of said about the Fun & Games forum since alot of us (Especially myself) go to that specific forum and go to the topic called "The Random Post Topic" which I believe is fun, but looking at the description of the topic, it says "Special gift for the 10 000th poster"; That itself can get a load of members posting in that topic because they would get a special prize. To be honest, I'm finding it a waste of time, but what is the prize first of all? A free version of GTA SA? Free version of Photoshop? Or is it just the forum based money because that to me, is seriously pointless to achieve.

K. Well this should be a useful campaign to rapidly boost our post count right up to 500,000 so we can get on the legendary www.big-boards.com

The only reason it actually got made. Just for TGTAP to get more posts since the GTA boards where starting to get inactive. The gift.. Yeah, just forum money. Like I've been doing for every milestone in that topic. I can't give huge amounts, but it's actually more aimed at the newer members.

I was the one that removed the link. To be honest, he was right. Then after that ofcourse, some members come and post, and their posts where flamed based posting which drove this member away from us. I can't believe we, a large well known, good forum was said to be "awful". It really makes me feel that it's the staff's fault that we're giving examples to new members to be like this. Although the warzone is like that, most topics in their are okay, since the member could be saying sorry, or is trying to resolve the problem, but with noobish flaming happening, it's somehow driving a New Member away from us.

Agreed. When I joined the forum felt like a very open community. It was nice cause it was rather 'small' too. It had a select few active members who somehow gave the forum a nice feel. One of the main reasons I left 2 months ago is because the forum had/has totally lost that open feeling and I wouldn't be surprised if new members would usually back of. It's the impression that usually decides if a member is going to come back or leave.

Then about GTA.. I really have almost nothing to post there. I post now and then in the GTASA forum, but there just isn't much to say about GTAIV IMO. Only when news arrives. But I think the GTAIV section is only going to be active when people actually have the game and then can discuss it, have fun with it ect.

An attitude change would be on its place, but I don't think we have to 'force' members to post in the GTA forums (though new members will, of course. Otherwise they wouldn't join a GTA community.

I don't know if I'm the only one. But when I visit this site I'm not thinking about GTA at all, just about the community.

[Chris]

So we should reward people for helping others with GTA? That should be why people are here in the first place, GTA. I mean, which other forums do you know reward people for doing such a thing?

Points are the most ridiculous things ever to be invented for a forum. Back in the day it was unique and we gained loads of members through it. We're getting rid of them though as it's both a waste of time and resources. Since there's basically no use to points there's no incentive to post for points and thus no extra incentive to post. We won't need them for gangs anymore. Look at any other GTA forum with gangs, how many have points systems? Not many.

And btw, you don't get post count or even points for posting in fun and games. As Jace said above everyone would post thousands of times if we gave members that privilege. Post count is serious business to some, seems weird to some of us but others think it's great. If one positive thing comes of it it shows you're dedicated to the forum

The point of the forum fun and games and general discussion, and all the other forums which branched of this were made because people complained there was nothing to do but talk about GTA. Again, look at other GTA forums, the biggest ones in particular (GTAForums.com, GTA4.tv, GTAGaming.com). This is something we all have in common.

Random post topic is nothing serious at all, if someone's changed the description to offer a prize it's obviously a joke. All it's there for is to relieve boredom yet sustain the attention of members so they stay longer. And look how popular it is. It's worked.

The point of the warzone was to eliminate arguments from every other forum. So if two or members began to get aggressive we could take action and direct them to the warzone, warn/suspend/ban if they didn't comply. The warzone is where they'd ultimately flame each other, realise what they were doing was pointless and didn't solve anything, and settled their differences. Nowadays everyone else joins in and higher up people like me stay out of that forum because it's inane. Kinda like GTAF really, you don't see adamcs and illspirit participating in flamewars and the like, it's where the "forum retards hang out". And good, hopefully it keeps them away from the other forums where we actually like to be helpful and friendly, and respect one another. The warzone has very few discussions which are actually useful and productive, but granted, there are some.

The GTA Next forum is a good idea when there are strong rumours or we're at least close to an announcement. The fact of the matter is with episodic content extending GTA IV to at least 2009, it will be at least 2010 before any GTA game MIGHT be release, more likely 2011. That's like 3 years away, it's just too early right now.

I think to focus more on GTA we need to encourage more creativity. I mean have you seen some of the members posting their artwork and other stuff they made? Some of it is awful, but then, some of it is fantastic. The people posting the awful stuff need to be given inspiration and constructive criticism. The few of you that are adept at Photoshop should help by posting tutorials and such in the graphics section. The people posting the decent stuff should gain respect from other members, which to be fair they do. Creating nice wallpapers that people will actually use is a great way to earn respect. Something I think is lacking in the current community.

Another way is to have some sort of intelligent discussion on the elements of GTAIV we still don't know much about. Do we have a topic discussing how seasons will play a role in the game?

[NSanityHD]

@ Gerard: Agreed!

We need to gain more members aswell. Instead of fighting and spamming like some members do.

But how are we going to improve TGTAP is members keep fighting? Maybe, they should read the rules more often like most of us do, and like I do.

And how are we going to improve if some of the members Spam most of the time?

Well, if everyone Stops arguing and Spamming etc etc, I think we CAN grow into a massive GTA community. I just want us to actually get bigger, better, and more larger then other GTA sites.

We can hopefully do that if some members stop arguing and stuff.

[TM™]

I can see what you mean, but overall, around 60% of members DON'T read the rules, and that's what leads to these problems. Some of us do and we acknowledge it, but sometimes people never use it to guide themselves to becoming a good member. I think the majority of us don’t know the rules well, but they can follow it without reading it because they might have recent experience on the forums. If they could not find the rules, it’s located on top near the banner’s header.

[Chris]

We get 15-40 new members every single day of the week. It's keeping them active on the forums that's the hard part.

[Dazza]

There's only one thing that is annoying me. The warzone, most people make pointless arguments that don't go anywhere. The hate topic is stupid, 'who do you hate the most?'. That just sparks more fighting, with is pointless, the 'What pisses you off?' is so that people can relive themselves without saying names. EG:

X did something wrong.

Z hated it and flames him.

X can go to the What pisses you off topic and say, It pisses me off when people flame me.

Or others use it for everyday life.

And isn't it suppose to be a RP area as well? Well I tried to bring RP back, and it got put down the list and forgotten about by flame topics.

[NSanityHD]

TM, most forums have different rules to others. But I seriously think ALL members should keep track of the rules in-case they change. I read the rules nearly everyday when I am active. I don't know why others don't. I bet when warner registered, he only registered for the mods etc etc, then Spammed, argued and being disrespectful to members and staff. Thats perthetic.

[Gerard]

Everybody here has got the idea - we just aren't a GTA forum really.

Chris, just because GTAF have a fun&games area doesn't mean we have to - most of the people here are saying we need to move away from the current generation of GTA forums that exist. My point is that we need to move up a gear, not just carry on slowly expanding in the same silly direction.

Definitely a subforum for the next GTA (GTA 5? Episodic IV?), but also more subforums for GTA IV. Not long before we need subforums for gameplay&help and modifications.

How to reward people? I don't mean give away prizes or shitty forum money - you've totally got the wrong idea. I mean respect. Make being knowledgeable about GTA the best thing to be here. Elites should be the best helpers, not just people Chris has on MSN.

Yeah this isn't going to happen overnight, we can't expect our existing members to just jump out of the existing mindset and into a new discussive helpful culture. The staff need to prepare, assist and encourage all the way - and continuously show new members the good way to continue.

Keep coming with the good ideas people, I'm impressed.

[Chris]

Yeah it is supposed to be for RP'ing as well. We've tried to encourage it several times, I even took part myself for a while (I hate RP'ing) and it was good for 1 maybe 2 weeks then it died down a lot. The gangs need a desperate revamp but I need to figure out the best way to go about it first. I'm also not sure that RP is such a big deal to gangs anymore. I'm not aware if it's popular on other forums or not but it's clearly not the main focus on any GTA site.

Everybody here has got the idea - we just aren't a GTA forum really.

Chris, just because GTAF have a fun&games area doesn't mean we have to - most of the people here are saying we need to move away from the current generation of GTA forums that exist. My point is that we need to move up a gear, not just carry on slowly expanding in the same silly direction.

Definitely a subforum for the next GTA (GTA 5? Episodic IV?), but also more subforums for GTA IV. Not long before we need subforums for gameplay&help and modifications.

How to reward people? I don't mean give away prizes or shitty forum money - you've totally got the wrong idea. I mean respect. Make being knowledgeable about GTA the best thing to be here. Elites should be the best helpers, not just people Chris has on MSN.

Yeah this isn't going to happen overnight, we can't expect our existing members to just jump out of the existing mindset and into a new discussive helpful culture. The staff need to prepare, assist and encourage all the way - and continuously show new members the good way to continue.

Keep coming with the good ideas people, I'm impressed.

We're not copying GTAF, I'm not implying that. it;s just that every damn forum has one. It's good for the forum trust me, show me a forum you've successfully managed. People need a place to be stupid, away from all the GTA stuff. That's why it's near the bottom of the forum after all the GTA forums, it's not an important forum but a necessary one.

obviously we don't need GTA IV subforums yet, the game isn't out. There's no point. At least another 3 months before they even need to be made. This is absolutely obvious that this will happen and not something I need to be reminded about. I've been doing it like this for the last 3 GTA games. The week of release is when this will happen so everything is in place for the big day.

I already said I'm not making a gtanext forum 3 years early. It's pointless when GTA IV isn't out. If people really honestly do get tired of GTA IV so quickly that they feel the need to talk about the next game they can use the general gaming forum.

Rewarding people. Yeah that was what my whole rant was on... respect, why didn't you just say that? Save me having to type all that out.

[TM™]

@ Ice: To be honest, I read the rules when I came onto the forums, but never really understood them that well. But I read it again, and I completely understood what Bumping a Topic meant. But reading them everyday, seems like a pointless routine, but keeping yourself aware of the rules means you actually are a good member because you're reading the rules.

But I believe what you're doing is completely fine and atleast you aware of the rules.

[NSanityHD]

Gerard, I actually think Chris should keep the award medals mod. It's a good mod aswell.

I think, Moderators, Super Mods, etc etc, should help more with members problems. I'm not saying, they don't. I'm just saying, they should help more, if you know what I mean.

EDIT: I also think, Chris should make a subforum, for GTA IV just for discussions about it and all. If we had the subforum, we would maybe be the first GTA forum, to have it. It might be pointless having it before the actual game came out, but at least we are ready for it.

What do you think?

EDIT once again: @ TM: Thanks TM. I always like to be fully aware of the rules, and make sure I am following them at all times.

I do NOT want to end up being suspended or Banned like most of the other foolish members have done. We are losing members because, all of the banned members keep being foolish, dis-respective and their attitude is stupid. But all of this stupidity with arguing with staff, isn't going to help. At the end of the day, they will get the punishment they deserve for what they are doing to members and Staff.

I just hope we lose all of the dis-respective members and gain more better onces. I think Inferno is actually improving his behavior now, even though I hate him... but I do like his new attitude, he's helping, being nice, and giving a little more respect then he used to. I do not say things like that to members I hate, but I must say, I think he is trying to improve himself.

Edited December 29, 2007 by I©e

[rockstarrem]

Don't we already have that? What would be the difference, discussing features? Since it's pretty much all in speculation right now I think it should stick to one forum.

[Gerard]

Yeah it is supposed to be for RP'ing as well. We've tried to encourage it several times, I even took part myself for a while (I hate RP'ing) and it was good for 1 maybe 2 weeks then it died down a lot. The gangs need a desperate revamp but I need to figure out the best way to go about it first. I'm also not sure that RP is such a big deal to gangs anymore. I'm not aware if it's popular on other forums or not but it's clearly not the main focus on any GTA site.

Yeah the RP is a good idea, but the most you did about it was fill in the forum description. Staff didn't lead by example there, staff didn't RP. Nothing was done so it kept on being used as a warzone for flaming despite the name-change.

We're not copying GTAF, I'm not implying that. it;s just that every damn forum has one. It's good for the forum trust me, show me a forum you've successfully managed. People need a place to be stupid, away from all the GTA stuff. That's why it's near the bottom of the forum after all the GTA forums, it's not an important forum but a necessary one.

i didn't suggest you should get rid of it. The problem is it is the most important subforum to most of our members, and it is by far the biggest. GTA takes a total back seat except to a few new members a week who join and ask questions in good faith that they'll be answered. Turns out about 3 dedicated members take turns to reply to the queries there, and everyone else pisses about.

Just shoving FFAG into a subforum doesn't really change anything for the thousands of people that already use it. The culture on this forum says that "Funny posts in ffag = respect". That needs to be changed to "helping out about GTA || discussing maturely = respect".

Yes of course we need a lounge to discuss in - that's because we're all friends here, and we like to chat. Maybe even a few topics for fun, but that shouldn't be the focus of the forum anymore.

show me a forum you've successfully managed

Oh so now we're into personal digs? Is this really about TGTAP for you, or just proving to yourself how awesome you think you are? In reply to your rhetorical question, this one.

obviously we don't need GTA IV subforums yet, the game isn't out. There's no point. At least another 3 months before they even need to be made. This is absolutely obvious that this will happen and not something I need to be reminded about. I've been doing it like this for the last 3 GTA games. The week of release is when this will happen so everything is in place for the big day.

I already said I'm not making a gtanext forum 3 years early. It's pointless when GTA IV isn't out. If people really honestly do get tired of GTA IV so quickly that they feel the need to talk about the next game they can use the general gaming forum.

Well as soon as IV is out there's no point in a wishlist for it, except perhaps possible upgrades or episodic content for IV (which is 360 only) or modifications (which is PC-only).

When TGTAP was listed in that magazine, they specifically cited the imagination of our members - why not tap onto that and allow a small subforum for wishes and things (would probably be bigger than the classics) - you could even stop people creating topics in there and force replies only. I'd bet hundreds of members would be willing to post in there - it's always massively fun thinking up what you want. Or does that not fit into your obscure small view of

Rewarding people. Yeah that was what my whole rant was on... respect, why didn't you just say that? Save me having to type all that out.

Because you're the only person who doesn't seem to see this problem and/or agree that this deeper stuff needs to change. You're fighting everything, probably because it means devolving slightly. Seems pretty selfish to me. No I'm not afraid to say that. Going to fire and ban me because I don't agree with you? So you DO want to be like GTAForums!