Your Religion / Beliefs

[Connor]

To be completely honest, any God, including Allah can go fuck themselves for all I care, they've done nothing to help me, even if he knocked on my door tomorrow, I'd tell him to fuck off or smite me down.

Connor if you dont believe in God fair enough but don't go spouting sh** out, other people may be offended by what your saying.

I'm offended by what other people say, but it's tough shit.

And the religious should be the last offended/complaining about people spouting shit out, they have a record for it.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Connor

[Slyde]

Generally, it is not nice to say F*** Off to anything especially they have not wronged you. However, you can say bullshit to religion because it would be a true statement. You can then back that up with REAL evidence longer than the bible itself.

[Red_91]

To be completely honest, any God, including Allah can go fuck themselves for all I care, they've done nothing to help me, even if he knocked on my door tomorrow, I'd tell him to fuck off or smite me down.

Connor if you dont believe in God fair enough but don't go spouting sh** out, other people may be offended by what your saying.

I'm offended by what other people say, but it's tough shit.

And the religious should be the last offended/complaining about people spouting shit out, they have a record for it.

A record for it? What planet are you on? I've come to the conclusion your just a narrow-minded person.

[ToonSkull]

Generally, it is not nice to say F*** Off to anything especially they have not wronged you. However, you can say bullshit to religion because it would be a true statement. You can then back that up with REAL evidence longer than the bible itself.

No offense to Connor or any other "atheist" in the forum. But I have been told many times by the atheist (not just here) that all my beliefs are wrong and I should believe they way they do. ??? Now if atheism isn't a religion based on science and evolution, I don't know what is. I halfway expect to see them pounding on my door telling me to join.

Although I am 15, I try to stay away from the vulgarities of the english language not because I believe it is a sin, but just bad grammar. Connor made the following statement;

To be completely honest, any God, including Allah can go fuck themselves for all I care, they've done nothing to help me, even if he knocked on my door tomorrow, I'd tell him to fuck off or smite me down.

If God (aka your creator) paid an atheist a visit and performed a miracle or ten, they would say magician or alien before they would use the G word. There would be no convincing an atheist, even after death they would just consider themselves to have gone insane.

Which brings me to my final point on disbelief, if you don't believe in God or the politics of religion, Why hang out in a forum on belief? It makes little or no sense. You simply state your belief and move on. You don't cram it down others throats trying to make them atheistic as well. It becomes a religion which is the politcis of belief and a religion of its own.

If you backtrack this thread for all my posts, I have NEVER told anyone they must believe "my way" or suffer in Hell. You don't even know much about my belief system other than I am raised by Christian parents. However that doesn't make me Christian. Although many have assumed as much.

[Butters!]

I personally am an Agnostic.

(An agnostic is popularly defined as a person who holds to a middle ground between atheism and theism who also believes that the existence of God is a definite possibility but it is not within the realm of one’s knowledge.)

@Azazel - Isn't Azazel the name of a satanic goat?

[ToonSkull]

I personally am an Agnostic.

(An agnostic is popularly defined as a person who holds to a middle ground between atheism and theism who also believes that the existence of God is a definite possibility but it is not within the realm of one’s knowledge.)

@Azazel - Isn't Azazel the name of a satanic goat?

Yep the old demon of the desert. That was my first clue he was bullshitting us... and I think the little troll still is just a flame bait.

You see I actually have no problem with Agnostic. Because if you were to state "There is no God." then you claim to be an all knowing super human that knows the sum of the universe and all its parts. The best an atheist can say is "I don't belive a God or super creator exists based on my current knowledge.". However I find more and more that people who claim to be atheistic keep trying very hard to convince others that their belief system is "the way". They quote science and evolution and use that as stongly as Bible thumping Christians use the Bible. I view the Bible as a historical document. It is really up to the individual to decide what parts they chose to believe. As far as science and evolution go, I also sumize that if one believes in a God they must also believe that God can manipulate science and is not bound by physics but is metaphysical.

I would be the first to say I have a strange belief system, but it is my system and nobody elses. My religous belief is as unque as my personality. I don't preach it, teach it, or tell people their beliefs are wrong. I just point out the logical problems that I see when people obviously are spouting random nonsense like "goat boy" up there.

[Slyde]

Yes, nobody knows if a god exist. But it is not allah or the jesus' dad. No god can be that prejudice and would never make talking snakes.

[Spaz The Great]

To be completely honest, any God, including Allah can go fuck themselves for all I care, they've done nothing to help me, even if he knocked on my door tomorrow, I'd tell him to fuck off or smite me down.

Connor if you dont believe in God fair enough but don't go spouting sh** out, other people may be offended by what your saying.

I find it annoying when these women sue places for not hiring them for job. There was one women who lost her business which was a hairdressers because she didn't hire this woman who wore a Burkha. She said when people get their hair done they like to see their hairdressers hair and faces as its a very sociable job so she didn't hire her. So she was sued and lost her business which is so unfair.

Try not to stereotype, one person doesn't mean everyones like that

Other people are offended by his opinion of a situation that would happen to him? Wow. They must be pretty pissy people, or just looking for a reason to get angry.

Bear never stereotyped. Re-read her post.

Generally, it is not nice to say F*** Off to anything especially they have not wronged you. However, you can say bullshit to religion because it would be a true statement. You can then back that up with REAL evidence longer than the bible itself.

Well, I take the same stance on what I would do if he existed and showed up at my door. If he exists as 99% of Christians preach him, then I want no part in his evil shenanigans.

To be completely honest, any God, including Allah can go fuck themselves for all I care, they've done nothing to help me, even if he knocked on my door tomorrow, I'd tell him to fuck off or smite me down.

Connor if you dont believe in God fair enough but don't go spouting sh** out, other people may be offended by what your saying.

I'm offended by what other people say, but it's tough shit.

And the religious should be the last offended/complaining about people spouting shit out, they have a record for it.

A record for it? What planet are you on? I've come to the conclusion your just a narrow-minded person.

Oh yes. They do have a record of it. More than every other Christian((meaning, the majority)) that I come across say the same things. "God exists because the bible says he does!".... "How do you know the bible is truth?".... "BECAUSE GOD WROTE IT!"...... "But, you just said the bible is proof of God..... If you claim God is proof the bible is truth, then you aren't giving any actual proof".... "THE PROOF IS IN THE BIBLE IF YOU READ IT YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND I LOVE MY ALMIGHTY GOD AND HE WILL PUNISH YOU FOR NOT BELIEVING IN HIM!!!!"

Not to mention they say things like "I don't believe in sub-species!", "Homosexuals should not be allowed to marry because God says they are evil!", "MY PENIS IS OBVIOUSLY BIGGER THAN YOURS BECAUSE I WORSHIP CHRIST!"

So yeah. A record for spouting shit.

Generally, it is not nice to say F*** Off to anything especially they have not wronged you. However, you can say bullshit to religion because it would be a true statement. You can then back that up with REAL evidence longer than the bible itself.

No offense to Connor or any other "atheist" in the forum. But I have been told many times by the atheist (not just here) that all my beliefs are wrong and I should believe they way they do. ??? Now if atheism isn't a religion based on science and evolution, I don't know what is. I halfway expect to see them pounding on my door telling me to join.

Although I am 15, I try to stay away from the vulgarities of the english language not because I believe it is a sin, but just bad grammar. Connor made the following statement;

To be completely honest, any God, including Allah can go fuck themselves for all I care, they've done nothing to help me, even if he knocked on my door tomorrow, I'd tell him to fuck off or smite me down.

If God (aka your creator) paid an atheist a visit and performed a miracle or ten, they would say magician or alien before they would use the G word. There would be no convincing an atheist, even after death they would just consider themselves to have gone insane.

Which brings me to my final point on disbelief, if you don't believe in God or the politics of religion, Why hang out in a forum on belief? It makes little or no sense. You simply state your belief and move on. You don't cram it down others throats trying to make them atheistic as well. It becomes a religion which is the politcis of belief and a religion of its own.

If you backtrack this thread for all my posts, I have NEVER told anyone they must believe "my way" or suffer in Hell. You don't even know much about my belief system other than I am raised by Christian parents. However that doesn't make me Christian. Although many have assumed as much.

First off, vulgarities are not grammatically incorrect. You cannot just make up rules to the English language. You can make up words all day long, and apply the rules to them. But when you start changing the rules to make yourself look smarter, you're only being retarded.

Everything you just said applies to Christians, as well. There is no convincing them. They try to tell everyone else they HAVE to follow Christianity because "GOD SAYS SO!". They think THEIR moral values should be governed law. Most of them choose to ignore that other religions even exist, and say things like, "GOD'S NAME SHOULD BE EVERYWHERE, ON OUR MONEY IN OUR SCHOOLS IN OUR STORES TATTOOED UPON OUR ASSES AND BRANDISHED INTO OUR BRAINS!!!!!!!"

Yes, they are extreme atheists, but as Red Devil said, try not to stereotype.

Oh, and for the record ToonSkull, there is more to beliefs than God and religion. I, myself, probably have an immensely more complex belief system than any Christian to ever live. And I do not follow a single structured religion, nor do I believe in any "God" as a single entity who created everything.

[Greensabre13.]

I agree with Bear and Butters, on the terms that I am raised a Catholic but do not practice the religion and am somewhat Agnostic, respectively.

I have friends that are Christian, and while I am conversing with them in any way I will not use so-called "vulgarities" if that is what they wish.

I listen to Christian-based music, eg. Underoath, Relient K, etc.

However, I have my certain beliefs, but I also have my certain doubts about religion.

I respect people's religions/beliefs, although when someone tries to convert everybody, so to speak, it frustrates me as everyone has their own thoughts on each religion and belief.

My thoughts, no offence intended to anybody.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Greensabre13.

[Red_91]

Other people are offended by his opinion of a situation that would happen to him? Wow. They must be pretty pissy people, or just looking for a reason to get angry.

Bear never stereotyped. Re-read her post.

First off Im not looking for a reason to get angry, I stayed out of this topic for a while but some of the people here are saying some controversial and offensive things (this includeds Azzazel)

Bear said 'these women' and then talked about one women, if thats not stereotyping I'm not sure what is.

Oh yes. They do have a record of it. More than every other Christian((meaning, the majority)) that I come across say the same things. "God exists because the bible says he does!".... "How do you know the bible is truth?".... "BECAUSE GOD WROTE IT!"...... "But, you just said the bible is proof of God..... If you claim God is proof the bible is truth, then you aren't giving any actual proof".... "THE PROOF IS IN THE BIBLE IF YOU READ IT YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND I LOVE MY ALMIGHTY GOD AND HE WILL PUNISH YOU FOR NOT BELIEVING IN HIM!!!!"

Not to mention they say things like "I don't believe in sub-species!", "Homosexuals should not be allowed to marry because God says they are evil!", "MY PENIS IS OBVIOUSLY BIGGER THAN YOURS BECAUSE I WORSHIP CHRIST!"

So yeah. A record for spouting shit.

Basically I belive theres two type of religious people,

The first are people who try to force their beliefs/opinions on others whereas others just accept their beliefs and don't interfere with what others belive.

What your trying to say is that mostly every Christian forces opinions on others, but that ain't true of course you do get the extreme people link Osama Bin Laden etc. But most religious people I have met don't try to get you to believe what they believe, they might tell you what there religion is about for understanding purposes but I haven't met anyone (yet) who has tried to influence their religion on me.

[Connor]

Generally, it is not nice to say F*** Off to anything especially they have not wronged you. However, you can say bullshit to religion because it would be a true statement. You can then back that up with REAL evidence longer than the bible itself.

No offense to Connor or any other "atheist" in the forum. But I have been told many times by the atheist (not just here) that all my beliefs are wrong and I should believe they way they do. ??? Now if atheism isn't a religion based on science and evolution, I don't know what is. I halfway expect to see them pounding on my door telling me to join.

Although I am 15, I try to stay away from the vulgarities of the english language not because I believe it is a sin, but just bad grammar. Connor made the following statement;

To be completely honest, any God, including Allah can go fuck themselves for all I care, they've done nothing to help me, even if he knocked on my door tomorrow, I'd tell him to fuck off or smite me down.

If God (aka your creator) paid an atheist a visit and performed a miracle or ten, they would say magician or alien before they would use the G word. There would be no convincing an atheist, even after death they would just consider themselves to have gone insane.

Which brings me to my final point on disbelief, if you don't believe in God or the politics of religion, Why hang out in a forum on belief? It makes little or no sense. You simply state your belief and move on. You don't cram it down others throats trying to make them atheistic as well. It becomes a religion which is the politcis of belief and a religion of its own.

If you backtrack this thread for all my posts, I have NEVER told anyone they must believe "my way" or suffer in Hell. You don't even know much about my belief system other than I am raised by Christian parents. However that doesn't make me Christian. Although many have assumed as much.

Sorry we can't all be as perfect as you see yourself.

I'd just like to continue the discussion of my belief like everyone else is doing, putting further points forward every few days.

First Bold:I was saying it from my point of view, I'm not just an Atheist, just like you religious don't like to be called racist mass murderering dumb arses, because you're not all like that are you? An Atheist is a person who does not believe in God, that's the only definition for it, it isn't "An Atheist is a person who does not believe in God, but if they found out God actually exists, they'd think they had gone insane! Oh no!"

Second Bold:We all just assumed because of that smug Christian attitude you seem to have.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Connor

[Butters!]

I agree with Bear and Butters, on the terms that I am raised a Catholic but do not practice the religion and am somewhat Agnostic, respectively.

I have friends that are Christian, and while I am conversing with them in any way I will not use so-called "vulgarities" if that is what they wish.

I listen to Christian-based music, eg. Underoath, Relient K, etc.

However, I have my certain beliefs, but I also have my certain doubts about religion.

I respect people's religions/beliefs, although when someone tries to convert everybody, so to speak, it frustrates me as everyone has their own thoughts on each religion and belief.

My thoughts, no offence intended to anybody.

Yep, I don't have a problam with anyone of any religion, as long as they don't try to convert me.

[Spaz The Great]

Other people are offended by his opinion of a situation that would happen to him? Wow. They must be pretty pissy people, or just looking for a reason to get angry.

Bear never stereotyped. Re-read her post.

First off Im not looking for a reason to get angry, I stayed out of this topic for a while but some of the people here are saying some controversial and offensive things (this includeds Azzazel)

Bear said 'these women' and then talked about one women, if thats not stereotyping I'm not sure what is.

I'm not saying you are. I'm saying whoever would be offended by what he said. What he said was not insulting to anyone, it was not threatening, abusive, etc. It was between him, and "God". The ONLY entity that has ANY right to be offended is the Christian God.

DO re-read Bear's post.

"I find it annoying when these women sue places for not hiring them for job. "

The keyword there making not a stereotyping statement is WHEN THESE WOMEN SUE. She never said she finds those women annoying because they sue. Then she goes on to give an example of a time in which it happened, possibly as "proof" that it does happen, or just as conversation. Who knows.

Oh yes. They do have a record of it. More than every other Christian((meaning, the majority)) that I come across say the same things. "God exists because the bible says he does!".... "How do you know the bible is truth?".... "BECAUSE GOD WROTE IT!"...... "But, you just said the bible is proof of God..... If you claim God is proof the bible is truth, then you aren't giving any actual proof".... "THE PROOF IS IN THE BIBLE IF YOU READ IT YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND I LOVE MY ALMIGHTY GOD AND HE WILL PUNISH YOU FOR NOT BELIEVING IN HIM!!!!"

Not to mention they say things like "I don't believe in sub-species!", "Homosexuals should not be allowed to marry because God says they are evil!", "MY PENIS IS OBVIOUSLY BIGGER THAN YOURS BECAUSE I WORSHIP CHRIST!"

So yeah. A record for spouting shit.

Basically I belive theres two type of religious people,

The first are people who try to force their beliefs/opinions on others whereas others just accept their beliefs and don't interfere with what others belive.

What your trying to say is that mostly every Christian forces opinions on others, but that ain't true of course you do get the extreme people link Osama Bin Laden etc. But most religious people I have met don't try to get you to believe what they believe, they might tell you what there religion is about for understanding purposes but I haven't met anyone (yet) who has tried to influence their religion on me.

Nope, not what I was saying. If you notice, I never said most Christians do it. I said, and I quote, more than every other Christian that I come across say the same things. Again, must I point out keywords, "THAT I COME ACROSS". Meaning my statements only applied to those I have met, or talked to.

And even the ones who don't try to convert me, still tell me I'm stupid, ignorant, blind, etc. and I'm going to hell and they hope I enjoy it there. I'm sorry, most Christians do not practice what they preach.

[Red_91]

I'm not saying you are. I'm saying whoever would be offended by what he said. What he said was not insulting to anyone, it was not threatening, abusive, etc. It was between him, and "God". The ONLY entity that has ANY right to be offended is the Christian God.

DO re-read Bear's post.

"I find it annoying when these women sue places for not hiring them for job. "

The keyword there making not a stereotyping statement is WHEN THESE WOMEN SUE. She never said she finds those women annoying because they sue. Then she goes on to give an example of a time in which it happened, possibly as "proof" that it does happen, or just as conversation. Who knows.

We'll agree to disagree because I still think it was stereotyping.

Nope, not what I was saying. If you notice, I never said most Christians do it. I said, and I quote, more than every other Christian that I come across say the same things. Again, must I point out keywords, "THAT I COME ACROSS". Meaning my statements only applied to those I have met, or talked to.

And even the ones who don't try to convert me, still tell me I'm stupid, ignorant, blind, etc. and I'm going to hell and they hope I enjoy it there. I'm sorry, most Christians do not practice what they preach.

If most Christians are like that where you live or who you meet, then thats tough luck,

Most I've seen dont try to convert me but maybe thats because I already have a religion and it would be fairly pointless to try and convert me.

[Greensabre13.]

Other people are offended by his opinion of a situation that would happen to him? Wow. They must be pretty pissy people, or just looking for a reason to get angry.

Bear never stereotyped. Re-read her post.

First off Im not looking for a reason to get angry, I stayed out of this topic for a while but some of the people here are saying some controversial and offensive things (this includeds Azzazel)

Bear said 'these women' and then talked about one women, if thats not stereotyping I'm not sure what is.

I'm not saying you are. I'm saying whoever would be offended by what he said. What he said was not insulting to anyone, it was not threatening, abusive, etc. It was between him, and "God". The ONLY entity that has ANY right to be offended is the Christian God.

DO re-read Bear's post.

"I find it annoying when these women sue places for not hiring them for job. "

The keyword there making not a stereotyping statement is WHEN THESE WOMEN SUE. She never said she finds those women annoying because they sue. Then she goes on to give an example of a time in which it happened, possibly as "proof" that it does happen, or just as conversation. Who knows.

Oh yes. They do have a record of it. More than every other Christian((meaning, the majority)) that I come across say the same things. "God exists because the bible says he does!".... "How do you know the bible is truth?".... "BECAUSE GOD WROTE IT!"...... "But, you just said the bible is proof of God..... If you claim God is proof the bible is truth, then you aren't giving any actual proof".... "THE PROOF IS IN THE BIBLE IF YOU READ IT YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND I LOVE MY ALMIGHTY GOD AND HE WILL PUNISH YOU FOR NOT BELIEVING IN HIM!!!!"

Not to mention they say things like "I don't believe in sub-species!", "Homosexuals should not be allowed to marry because God says they are evil!", "MY PENIS IS OBVIOUSLY BIGGER THAN YOURS BECAUSE I WORSHIP CHRIST!"

So yeah. A record for spouting shit.

Basically I belive theres two type of religious people,

The first are people who try to force their beliefs/opinions on others whereas others just accept their beliefs and don't interfere with what others belive.

What your trying to say is that mostly every Christian forces opinions on others, but that ain't true of course you do get the extreme people link Osama Bin Laden etc. But most religious people I have met don't try to get you to believe what they believe, they might tell you what there religion is about for understanding purposes but I haven't met anyone (yet) who has tried to influence their religion on me.

Nope, not what I was saying. If you notice, I never said most Christians do it. I said, and I quote, more than every other Christian that I come across say the same things. Again, must I point out keywords, "THAT I COME ACROSS". Meaning my statements only applied to those I have met, or talked to.

And even the ones who don't try to convert me, still tell me I'm stupid, ignorant, blind, etc. and I'm going to hell and they hope I enjoy it there. I'm sorry, most Christians do not practice what they preach.

I second that, there are those people that will keep saying their religion is better than all the rest, and that if we don't follow we'll probably all just fall in a hole filled with fire/snakes/(insert object here) but in the end, everybody has their own beliefs.

[Bear]

I didn't say all women do that, that would be stupid. But it does happen and I gave an example, I never said once that all Burkha wearing women do that as that is stereotyping.

[Siouxsie]

I'm chipping in a little randomly, but I've been wondering about reincarnation. People who believe in it say something along the lines of "if you're a bad person in this life you'll come back as a cockroach in the next". But an insect doesn't have half the capacity to understand that it was once a human and is now an insect, so where's the punishment?

[Bear]

I can see where your coming from, yet if you have been a good person then the highest honour is to come back as a cow. But if you were unlucky and came back as a cow in say Italy where you will be eaten surely that isn't the best option. I am going by the Hindu religon here.

[Spaz The Great]

ignorantbabbleignorantbabbleignorantbabble

Sorry, you are blindly ignoring what she said so you can insult her. Shut up, you're being a dick.

I'm chipping in a little randomly, but I've been wondering about reincarnation. People who believe in it say something along the lines of "if you're a bad person in this life you'll come back as a cockroach in the next". But an insect doesn't have half the capacity to understand that it was once a human and is now an insect, so where's the punishment?

It isn't about the physical body. It's the spirit/energy/whatever that is being punished.

I do not believe in that form of karma. I believe maybe karma could be transferred from one physical existence to the next, but then maybe the karma is attached to the soul and not the physical body.

[Slyde]

I'd like to think karma exists but then if it did, all the murderers and rapists in the world should be dead by now.

So guys what if the religion you believed in was wrong?

[NickS]

I'd like to think karma exists but then if it did, all the murderers and rapists in the world should be dead by now.

So guys what if the religion you believed in was wrong?

Then God will send us all to Hell, if there is a God and if there is a Hell.

I don't really know, I never actually followed a religion seriously

[Red_91]

ignorantbabbleignorantbabbleignorantbabble

Sorry, you are blindly ignoring what she said so you can insult her. Shut up, you're being a dick.

I ain't insulting anybody and as for calling me the dick, your the one who's false quoting me, I don't want to argue here but if you have a problem with any of my comments take it up on PM, I don't argue here.

[Greensabre13.]

I have a story I'd like to share.

As my neighbour and I missed our school bus this morning, we walked up to the nearest Metro terminal to catch a bus. While we were sitting/waiting/chatting etc, we were approached by a woman. She sat down next to us and started up a seemingly normal conversation, eg. where we went to school, what we wanted to do with ourselves.

Next came a question that we were NOT expecting from this woman: "Do you two believe in the Bible?"

We didn't know what to say, so we just kind of said, "Er, well we're not really sure."

Turns out the woman was a Jehovah's Witness, and she told us about how "the Bible is sure to help us with our career path", or something. She also gave us a brochure, which I decided to retype exactly on here for everyone to see and talk/share thoughts/argue about, however boring this may be.

NOTE: I am NOT trying to "convert" anybody, this is purely out of curiosity for other's thoughts on this matter.

All Suffering SOON TO END!

At some time in your life, you have likely asked, 'Why all the suffering?' For thousands of years, the human family has suffered greatly from wars, poverty, disasters, crime, injustice, sickness, and death. The past hundred years have seen more suffering than ever before. Will all of this ever end?

The comforting answer is yes, and very soon! God's Word, the Bible, proclaims: "The wicked one will be no more... But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." For how long? "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." - Psalm 37:10, 11, 29.

After God removes wickedness and suffering, the earth will be transformed into a paradise. Then people will be able to live forever in perfect health and happiness. God's Word foretells: "[God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore." - Revelation 21:4.

In that new world, even dead ones will be brought back to life to share in those blessings: "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) That is why Jesus Christ could tell a repentant evildoer who expressed faith in him: "You will be with me in Paradise." - Luke 23:43.

Why Did Suffering Start?

Since God purposed for humans to have such a marvelous future, why did he permit suffering to start? Why has he allowed it for so long?

When God created Adam and Eve, He made them perfect in body in mind. He out them in a paradise garden and gave them satisfying work to do. The bible states: "God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good." (Genesis 1:31) If they had obeyed God, they would have produced perfect children, and the earth would have become a global paradise, where people would live forever in peace and happiness.

God implanted in Adam and Eve the wonderful gift of free will as part of the human makeup. They were not to be mindless robots. However, their continued happiness depended upon their using free will in the right way - to obey God's laws. God says: "I, Jehovah, as your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk." (Isaiah 48:17) Misuse of free will would result in catastrophe, since humans were not created to be successful independent of God. The Bible says: "To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." - Jeremiah 10:23.

Sadly, our first parents felt that they could independent of God and still be successful. But when they pulled away from God's rulership, he no longer sustained them in perfection. So they began to degenerate until finally they got old and died. Consistent with the laws of genetics, we have inherited that imperfection and death. - Romans 5:12.

The Main Issue - Sovereignty

Why did God not destroy Adam and Eve and start over with another human pair? Because God's universal sovereignty, that is, his right to rule, had been challenged. The question was, Who has the right to rule, and whose rule is right? By extension, Could humans do better if not ruled by God? In allowing them enough time to experiment with total freedom, God would establish once and for all whether they are better off under his rule or their own. The time allowed had to be long enough for humans to try all types of political, social, economic, and religious systems apart from God's guidance.

What has been the result? Thousands of years of human history tell us that there has been more and more suffering. In the past century, the human family has experienced the worst suffering ever. Millions were murdered during the Holocaust. Over 100 million have been slaughtered in wars. Crime and violence are rampant. Drug abuse is epidemic. Sexually transmitted diseases continue to spread. Tens of millions die each year of hunger and disease. Family life and moral values have broken down everywhere. No human government has the answers to these problems. Not one of them has overcome aging, sickness, and death.

The human condition is just as the Bible foretold for our times. God's Word identifies our era as "the last days" of this system of things when "critical times hard to deal with will be here." And just as the Bible said, 'wicked men and imposters have advanced from bad to worse.' - 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 13.

Suffering Is Near Its End

All the evidence shows that we are nearing the end of man's tragic experiment in independence from God. It has been clearly demonstrated that rulership by humans apart from God can never succeed. Only God's rulership can bring peace, happiness, perfect health, and everlasting life. So Jehovah's tolerationof wickedness and suffering is nearing its end. Soon God will intervene in human affairs by destroying this entire unsatisfactory system of things.

Bible prophecy says: "In the days of those kings [human rulerships now existing] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom [in heaven] that will never be brought to ruin... It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms [present rulerships], and it itself will stand to times indefinite: (Daniel 2:44) The vindication of Jehovah's sovereignty, his right to rule, by his heavenly Kingdom is the central teaching of the Bible. Foretelling a key part of the sign of "the last days," Jesus said: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." - Matthew 24:14.

When the end comes, who will survive? The Bible answers: "The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth." (Proverbs 2:21, 22) The upright are those who learn Jehovah's will and do it. Jesus Christ said: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3) Yes, "the world is passing away..., but he that does the will of God remains forever." - 1 John 2:17.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this.

[Slyde]

All Suffering SOON TO END!

At some time in your life, you have likely asked, 'Why all the suffering?' For thousands of years, the human family has suffered greatly from wars, poverty, disasters, crime, injustice, sickness, and death. The past hundred years have seen more suffering than ever before. Will all of this ever end?

The comforting answer is yes, and very soon! God's Word, the Bible, proclaims: "The wicked one will be no more... But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." For how long? "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." - Psalm 37:10, 11, 29.

After God removes wickedness and suffering, the earth will be transformed into a paradise. Then people will be able to live forever in perfect health and happiness. God's Word foretells: "[God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore." - Revelation 21:4.

In that new world, even dead ones will be brought back to life to share in those blessings: "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) That is why Jesus Christ could tell a repentant evildoer who expressed faith in him: "You will be with me in Paradise." - Luke 23:43.

Why Did Suffering Start?

Since God purposed for humans to have such a marvelous future, why did he permit suffering to start? Why has he allowed it for so long?

When God created Adam and Eve, He made them perfect in body in mind -so perfect that they screwed him over. He out them in a paradise garden and gave them satisfying work to do. The bible states: "God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good." (Genesis 1:31) If they had obeyed God, they would have produced perfect children, and the earth would have become a global paradise, where people would live forever in peace and happiness.

God implanted in Adam and Eve the wonderful gift of free will as part of the human makeup. They were not to be mindless robots. However, their continued happiness depended upon their using free will in the right way - to obey God's laws. God says: "I, Jehovah, as your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk." (Isaiah 48:17) Misuse of free will would result in catastrophe, since humans were not created to be successful independent of God. The Bible says: "To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." - Jeremiah 10:23.

Sadly, our first parents felt that they could independent of God and still be successful. But when they pulled away from God's rulership LOL TALKING SNAKE, he no longer sustained them in perfection. So they began to degenerate until finally they got old and died. Consistent with the laws of genetics ROFL, we have inherited that imperfection and death. - Romans 5:12.

The Main Issue - Sovereignty

Why did God not destroy Adam and Eve and start over with another human pair? Because God's universal sovereignty, that is, his right to rule, had been challenged. The question was, Who has the right to rule, and whose rule is right? By extension, Could humans do better if not ruled by God? In allowing them enough time to experiment with total freedom, God would establish once and for all whether they are better off under his rule or their own. The time allowed had to be long enough for humans to try all types of political, social, economic, and religious systems apart from God's guidance.

What has been the result? Thousands of years of human history tell us that there has been more and more suffering. In the past century, the human family has experienced the worst suffering ever. Millions were murdered during the Holocaust. Over 100 million have been slaughtered in wars. Crime and violence are rampant. Drug abuse is epidemic. Sexually transmitted diseases continue to spread. Tens of millions die each year of hunger and disease. Family life and moral values have broken down everywhere. No human government has the answers to these problems. Not one of them has overcome aging, sickness, and death. Its called human nature and evolution.

The human condition is just as the Bible foretold for our times. God's Word identifies our era as "the last days" of this system of things when "critical times hard to deal with will be here." And just as the Bible said, 'wicked men and imposters have advanced from bad to worse.' - 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 13.

Suffering Is Near Its End

All the evidence shows that we are nearing the end of man's tragic experiment in independence from God. It has been clearly demonstrated that rulership by humans apart from God can never succeed. Only God's rulership can bring peace, happiness, perfect health, and everlasting life. So Jehovah's tolerationof wickedness and suffering is nearing its end. Soon God will intervene in human affairs by destroying this entire unsatisfactory system of things.

Bible prophecy says: "In the days of those kings [human rulerships now existing] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom [in heaven] that will never be brought to ruin... It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms [present rulerships], and it itself will stand to times indefinite: (Daniel 2:44) The vindication of Jehovah's sovereignty, his right to rule, by his heavenly Kingdom is the central teaching of the Bible. Foretelling a key part of the sign of "the last days," Jesus said: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." - Matthew 24:14.

When the end comes, who will survive? The Bible answers: "The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it nice scare tactic, typical cliche in religion. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth." (Proverbs 2:21, 22) The upright are those who learn Jehovah's will and do it. Jesus Christ said: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3) Yes, "the world is passing away..., but he that does the will of God remains forever." - 1 John 2:17.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this.

[Greensabre13.]

Yeah, agreed on that, Slyde.

As I was typing that up, I was thinking some of the points being made were a bit hmm.