Liberty Overlord Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I seriously don't know. Both sides of the argument have major flaws so I'm simply undecided. The only thing I did decide is that the big bang did not happen. The big bang makes no sense. How could there be some random explosion? Something had to cause this explosion that came out of nothing, right? Another problem I see is a flaw in evolution. If we all came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys around today? They aren't a migratory species, so a separate branch couldn't have transformed into a human. If animals came from algae, why is there still algae EVERYWHERE? Another thing I have a problem with is consious thought. Where do feelings come from? Science can not explain feelings. Of course there are chemicals that can cause the feelings, but scientists can not explain HOW chemicals cause feelings. They've broken down the brain, its just particles, nothing that can explain how we have consious thought. When they break down the brain, it looks like the brain is a giant plant, and should be mindless, just like a plant. But yet, we have thoughts and feelings. Scientists are seriously stumped about this and so they keep it hush-hush. Perhaps the biggest question about religion is about Constantine. Constantine hated Christians, he burned them, tortured them ect. Then, he suddenly converted. Apparently he saw a burning cross in the sky. And that is the only possible explaination. There is no reason why this person who despised Christians would suddenly convert unless he was accually telling the truth and saw a burning cross in the sky. Another un-explainable person is Saul/Paul/St. Paul. He also hated Christians and was one of the many people screaming for Jesus to be killed. Then one day he takes a walk and comes back, frantic and blind, saying that dead-Jesus came to him in a blinding light and spoke to him. There is also no other possible explaination to why he suddenly converted except that he was telling the truth and did see something of the supernatural. It has also been proven that people saw (or think they saw) jesus performing miracles, because on his roman record, it said that he was turned over to the Roman Empire by the Jews for "healing the sick and performing miracles saying that he was the son of God". One more thing that can't be explained. Jesus's body dissapeared. Some athiests say that "rebels broke in and stole his body" but they forget that jesus had almost no followers at that time, and that it took 20+ roman soldiers to roll that stone over his tomb, and Jesus only had 11 disciples left. It also can't be explained that according to Roman records, 500 people who were not connected with eachother claimed to have seen Jesus again after his death, including people that hated and dispised him, and would have no reason for saying it unless they truly believed it. Until the all knowing scientists can explain those things to me, I am 100% undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Another problem I see is a flaw in evolution. If we all came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys around today? They aren't a migratory species, so a separate branch couldn't have transformed into a human. If animals came from algae, why is there still algae EVERYWHERE? One arguement towards this is that not everything has to evolve. As in, just because ONE monkey turns into a human, doesn't mean the other one will be a human too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Overlord Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 One arguement towards this is that not everything has to evolve. As in, just because ONE monkey turns into a human, doesn't mean the other one will be a human too. But evolution is suppossed to be gradual, not a sudden change, so there had to have been a countless amount of monkeys all changing at the same time, so the new improved monkeys could mate. If that were true, the minority of monkeys would die out and the new and improved monkeys would take charge...but that hasn't happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 One arguement towards this is that not everything has to evolve. As in, just because ONE monkey turns into a human, doesn't mean the other one will be a human too. But evolution is suppossed to be gradual, not a sudden change, so there had to have been a countless amount of monkeys all changing at the same time, so the new improved monkeys could mate. If that were true, the minority of monkeys would die out and the new and improved monkeys would take charge...but that hasn't happened. Er, yeah. I didn't really mean sudden change.. but like.. changing just into a human. There'd have to be DNA changes throughout time. It could've only happened in a certain part of the world and just went on from there. This makes me really want to know now.. haha. btw, the "new and improved" monkeys have already taken over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_91 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Well for people who are atheists. Can I ask you on question - How was the Universe created? Until this question is answered there is a need to belief and have faith in God. But if this question is answered (I don't think it ever will) then we would know if God really does exist or not exist. I am a religious person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I seriously don't know. Both sides of the argument have major flaws so I'm simply undecided. The only thing I did decide is that the big bang did not happen. The big bang makes no sense. How could there be some random explosion? Something had to cause this explosion that came out of nothing, right?Another problem I see is a flaw in evolution. If we all came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys around today? They aren't a migratory species, so a separate branch couldn't have transformed into a human. If animals came from algae, why is there still algae EVERYWHERE? Another thing I have a problem with is consious thought. Where do feelings come from? Science can not explain feelings. Of course there are chemicals that can cause the feelings, but scientists can not explain HOW chemicals cause feelings. They've broken down the brain, its just particles, nothing that can explain how we have consious thought. When they break down the brain, it looks like the brain is a giant plant, and should be mindless, just like a plant. But yet, we have thoughts and feelings. Scientists are seriously stumped about this and so they keep it hush-hush. Perhaps the biggest question about religion is about Constantine. Constantine hated Christians, he burned them, tortured them ect. Then, he suddenly converted. Apparently he saw a burning cross in the sky. And that is the only possible explaination. There is no reason why this person who despised Christians would suddenly convert unless he was accually telling the truth and saw a burning cross in the sky. Another un-explainable person is Saul/Paul/St. Paul. He also hated Christians and was one of the many people screaming for Jesus to be killed. Then one day he takes a walk and comes back, frantic and blind, saying that dead-Jesus came to him in a blinding light and spoke to him. There is also no other possible explaination to why he suddenly converted except that he was telling the truth and did see something of the supernatural. It has also been proven that people saw (or think they saw) jesus performing miracles, because on his roman record, it said that he was turned over to the Roman Empire by the Jews for "healing the sick and performing miracles saying that he was the son of God". One more thing that can't be explained. Jesus's body dissapeared. Some athiests say that "rebels broke in and stole his body" but they forget that jesus had almost no followers at that time, and that it took 20+ roman soldiers to roll that stone over his tomb, and Jesus only had 11 disciples left. It also can't be explained that according to Roman records, 500 people who were not connected with eachother claimed to have seen Jesus again after his death, including people that hated and dispised him, and would have no reason for saying it unless they truly believed it. Until the all knowing scientists can explain those things to me, I am 100% undecided. I think you are decided. Well for people who are atheists.Can I ask you on question - How was the Universe created? Until this question is answered there is a need to belief and have faith in God. But if this question is answered (I don't think it ever will) then we would know if God really does exist or not exist. I am a religious person. I believe in the Big Bang. I do think that is what happened as it does make sense if you read into it. I dont understand Noahs Ark. How on earth did he get all those animals and how did he get them ALL onto a boat. Makes no sense. All they mainly have is desert animals where that took place. So I dont see how Noahs Ark is logical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draftermatt Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) I am a baptized Catholic, as is my wife. But we wanted an outdoor wedding so we had a Lutheran minister perform it. (Catholics say only in the Church, who knows). Not a practicing or devout Catholic, but I cannot picture myself any other way. By the way Catholics are Christians. You wouldn't believe the arguments I've had with people who think wer'e not. My faith in God and Christ was very very strong as a child. I planned on becoming a preacher for a long time, (until the age of 13 I guess.) Not really sure what caused me to stop wanting to be anymore though. Belief in God is not the same as belief in the Bible (in my opinion). The Bible is full of "stories". Faith stories if you will. Maybe they're true, maybe not. But they give you a guide for life. For example, Noah's Ark. You shouldn't take from it that Noah got all the animals in the Ark. But that God told a man to do something and he did it without question. Because he had faith in God. I am a man of science now more than anything. I think Evolution happened but that God made it happen. I believe in God, Heaven, hell, ghosts, demons, etc. There is too much unexplained by science to think otherwise. But as I said yesterday, I do not mock or question others. I will not judge you. Jesus himself said "Judge not lest ye be judged". That's good advice for anyone. Edited January 15, 2007 by draftermatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Well for people who are atheists. Can I ask you on question - How was the Universe created?Until this question is answered there is a need to belief and have faith in God. But if this question is answered (I don't think it ever will) then we would know if God really does exist or not exist. I don't know how the universe was created. I don't know how many litres of water are in the ocean. I don't know how many rhinos there are in Africa. I don't know how to make Pepsi. That doesn't mean a God exists. Yes, of course there IS an argument to say that God does exist, but there are lots of arguments that say it doesn't. The fact that I don't know the answer to everything doesn't mean that somebody has to. What you're saying is that if there is anything you don't know, you should make up an excuse to explain why. That is how stories come about - "mummy where do babies come from?" is a prime example, except religion is a story that people actually begin to believe. For you religious people, answer me this question. EVERY religion on Earth claims to be THE correct religion with THE real god(s) that exists. The Egyptians, the Romans, the Norse gods - they were all entirely believed by their people. Over history, millions of people have given their lives for the religion they believe in. How do you know that your religion is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I do think that the Bible may just a be a nice story more than anything. The bible has said that the Earth is about 4000 years old. Now James something (sorry cannot remember his last name) was a scottish geologist and he basically found this ophelites that proved the earth has to be millions on years old. He said it was impossible for the earth to have created these ophelites in 4000 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 Well for people who are atheists. Can I ask you on question - How was the Universe created?Until this question is answered there is a need to belief and have faith in God. But if this question is answered (I don't think it ever will) then we would know if God really does exist or not exist. What Gerard said. Such a pointless question too. I mean does anyone actually care 'how' the world came to be? I certainly don't. It doesn't have any impact on my life. Yes it's a pretty interesting subject - doesn't mean it matters. Christianity says that God made the world in 6 days - impressive eh? But did anyone stop and think about the order he did it in. It's seriously messed up. Let me show you: 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 1:2 - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 1:3 - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 1:4 - And God saw the light, that it was good: So, he made light, AFTER creating heaven AND the Earth. Which means he did those things in the DARK. I'm sorry but the Bible makes God sound like a fucking superhero. Something he evidently isn't. The Bible is way too far-fetched to even be believable if you really think about it logically. If you don't follow it logically chances are you're Christian, or belong to another religion. So, asking how the Earth was created is like asking how all the planets were created, how the sun was created, how big is the solar system, how many galaxies are there beyond this one, and is there anything else beyond there, where are boundaries? Simply cannot be answered. End of. There's no point trying to create a story about it. People will believe what they want to believe. I'm not one who believes in what's said in the Bible, you can tell from my posts in this topic by now. Sorry if you disapprove of my slightly satirical views btw, it's just how I find it easier expressing my thoughts, not meant to offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM™ Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Well for people who are atheists.Can I ask you on question - How was the Universe created? Until this question is answered there is a need to belief and have faith in God. But if this question is answered (I don't think it ever will) then we would know if God really does exist or not exist. I am a religious person. It's up to you whether you think god exists or not, Either way, Big Bang Theory was one of them, Or go threw some Holy Books, They show it too, But the main reason is that you choose what to Believe in, I see that you are religious type so you wouldn't go through Scientific veiws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 How do you know that your religion is correct? People believe that their religion is correct. Which is pretty logical if you're practicing a religion. You don't do it just for the hell of it... or atleast I hope you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Lord Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I dont really know how the EARTH was created. Coz each religion has a different idea to it. But for the Sun,Moon and other celestial bodies.As bear said.THE BIG BANG THEORY. ANd more detailed science.But thats impossible for me to explain here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I'm highly intrested in science and also want to study science later. Sure the earth wasn't made in just 6 days. But the bible also says that "his" time isn't the same as ours. Take that how you want to see it. Like Draftermatt said, use it as a guideline and not as your historybook at school. And even if it was just one big fake, what would I lose. I would have had a good life and lived like a good person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I don't think atheist should celebrate religious holidays. GO GET YOUR OWN. If you want to celebrate it so much then become part of that religion. Don't tag along with the believers during our time. I would think most believers would want them to. To pull them closer / find God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz The Great Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 One arguement towards this is that not everything has to evolve. As in, just because ONE monkey turns into a human, doesn't mean the other one will be a human too. But evolution is suppossed to be gradual, not a sudden change, so there had to have been a countless amount of monkeys all changing at the same time, so the new improved monkeys could mate. If that were true, the minority of monkeys would die out and the new and improved monkeys would take charge...but that hasn't happened. Not if the minority of monkeys still had enough monkeys to continue breeding. Sort of like how humans vary in different areas of the world, depending on what they need((like skin color)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) I don't think atheist should celebrate religious holidays. GO GET YOUR OWN. If you want to celebrate it so much then become part of that religion. Don't tag along with the believers during our time. I would think most believers would want them to. To pull them closer / find God. Most people don't calibrate christmas as "christmas", but an oppertunity to get some prestents or just fun, nothing to do with Christ so it doesn't really bring them closer. Edited January 19, 2007 by Jace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 But evolution is suppossed to be gradual, not a sudden change, so there had to have been a countless amount of monkeys all changing at the same time, so the new improved monkeys could mate. If that were true, the minority of monkeys would die out and the new and improved monkeys would take charge...but that hasn't happened. Not if the minority of monkeys still had enough monkeys to continue breeding. Sort of like how humans vary in different areas of the world, depending on what they need((like skin color)). Actually it has happened. The apes that didn't evolve into humans are... apes. They kept on evolving, but not as much - they reached the point where they are now, and they will continue to evolve. It's not a case of there being one species which ALL evolve into one other species etc - some of them have allele mutations which, when interbred, is evolution. One thing I really hate about the pro-religion argument is "we can't explain YOUR theory so mine must be true". That's ridiculous - all it means is that it still has to be explained. If someone showed you a really fast computer, and you couldn't explain the technology then obviously that MUST mean that a God exists and had a son called Jesus etc etc etc - all it means is that you don't understand it and you probably don't want to. Maybe the truth is too much to handle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLlamaLlama Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Can't remember where i heard it, but the only thing that enable humans to evolve to the way we are was via mutation. That is, the genes of a monkey deformed, causing its voice box to be lower on its body. This meant it could make a wider range of sounds (whicjh eventually changed into speech, meaning they could communicate more efficiently) So evrytime this certain monkey bred, each of its offspring would ahve the 'better' voicebox, thats why some chimps evolved and others didnt. Just somnething i heard a while back, maybe 1 or 2 years, just one of those thing i remebered, whilst on the subject iof monkeys evolving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 That's exactly how evolution has always worked for everything. One fish genetically mutates to have stronger fins. When that fish mates with another, that allele gets passed onto the next generation (which can be a lot of fish). This happens a lot, and eventually loads of fish have this one mutation. This reoccurs over millions of years, and amongst many other mutations those strong fins eventually become legs for frogs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I'm more 'on the fence' so to speak. I find it hard to believe with all the bad goings on in the world today that anyone of higher power exists. You would think if one would he would be stopping some of these things from happening. September 11th is a clear example, were as he that day? Dunno where I sit, so I'm just on the fence. I don't see it as something overly important to me, so it's not really something I think about much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9 Krew Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 (edited) i Have'nt read the whole topic but is there any jew, budhest, muslims just for a question ?? the only main reliogon besides the cristian and catholic one i saw was jay d who was a hindu Edited January 19, 2007 by KingGoliath-Wu Zi Mu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I respect jews, I don't understand why lot's of people scould them... And maybe 911 happend to start the war against terrorists or something or just make people aware of what is still going to happen. just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeAtH Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I don't believe any gods. But if people believe the god and it helps them some way i don't care but i don't like these killing religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz The Great Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 i Have'nt read the whole topic but is there any jew, budhest, muslims just for a question ??the only main reliogon besides the cristian and catholic one i saw was jay d who was a hindu Keruri is a Pagan. Only, she's sort of not in this topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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