My Ups and Downs about Obama

[Bear]

Most farms torture animals, do you eat McDonalds chicken nuggets? Guess what they are probably battery farmed and are tortured.

If I was raped and was pregnant how could I look at that baby and see love, it would be a constant reminder of what happened. The terrible feelings of what happened would never go away but if I had an abortion I would be able to put the past behind and try and get my life back after it was destroyed. Its not murder during the first trimester.

If your straight then how can gay people bother you? It's not like their lives are going t affect yours.

We know your Christian, but guess how that religon started? It was created so Henry VIII could get a divorce, he made the Church of England which is Christianity and then Britian spread this new Church over the centuries. Before Britian and most parts of Europe were Catholics. So this great religon was created to give the King divorce. So the religon seems to me as more of a loopole.

[Franswurst]

I'm sorry, but I just can't read this and not comment as well.

1+ 2) Spaz already said a great deal on this and most of what I wanted to say, Obama is only legalizing abortion up to the end of the first trimester, since that is the official thing in the whole world (where abortion is legalized), its very rare cases that abortions after that are allowed and its usually only when rape was involved. And as Spaz said, its a FETUS its not yet a living being in the first trimester, it doesn't have a brain or a heart yet, it might be "living" inside the mother already, but its nothing it doesn't know it exists, and is greatly undeveloped. You can't really compare abortion (what you say killing a human) with actually killing a born child or a grown man/woman.

3) Yeah, really weren't thinking on that one were you...?

4) His first telecast was for Iranians? You say this even though you don't know and just heard about it, can you present factual evidence of this? And either way, does it matter? Do you think he sent them subliminal messages saying "look i'm now president, we can begin taking over america?" He's President of the USA, which makes him one of the, if not the most important man in the World, so as such he also has to appeal to the whole world.

5) Considering you are all about human rights and not killing a human being (abortion) you however on the other hand think its ok to torture people and treat them without any rights and dignity? Yes, SOME of the prisoners in Guantanamo are terrorists, but there's also some who are not, by closing Guantanamo, Obama is making sure that these people can be filtered out, and have their rights restored. And once Guantanamo is closed and the prisoners have been prosecuted they will be handed out to the authorities of the respective countries.

6) See #3

7) So you think spending 1.3 Trillion Dollars (which like you said the US doesn't have) to try and save the countries economy, and prevent people losing jobs etc, is bad, but spending over 10 Trillion Dollars (which again the US don't have) on a war that was started under false pretenses is good?

8) Good, see above.

9) And? Here we are on the subject of Humans again, and homosexuality dates back to long before Christ. I always love the Christians (Catholics at least) who condemn homosexuality, and then their priests go around molesting little boys...

I myself was born catholic but like many here, over the years I got smart, and realized that (to me) the bible is a bunch of bullshit, and has caused more damage than good. I think its ok to believe in something, everyone needs something to give them hope, but I can't understand those people who believe the bible word for word.

10) Maybe a young/inexperienced guy is what America needs for once, there is a need for change, and maybe Obama can bring it. I'm not American, but if I were I would have voted for Obama because I think he was the better candidate. Do I believe he will make a huge difference and change everything and make everything good? No, I don't but I believe he will try his best and knows that a lot of things need to change. Anybody expecting a miracle from Obama is stupid, but believing in Obama is not.

Now, I don't know if its true that you're 13 or not, but if it is, you really should not be starting political discussions like these, because you're just not old enough yet, to know a lot. You just know what you're parents tell you, what others tell you, but you need to get a little older so you can also start making up your own opinions, so you can gather your own knowledge. I don't mean this in an insulting way, but you're the one who is inexperienced when it comes to politics, and the world because you're probably just too young to understand it all.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Franswurst

[_Ray]

God said we could use the animals of the Earth, just not abuse them.

Do you consider a fetus an animal or a human?

Are you telling me killing animals isn't considered abuse? What the fuck is then?

God said we could use the animals for our needs, (eating, making into tools, etc.)

But clearly not to torture them or do dog fighting, etc.

G2G

Alright, but killing a cow and using HALF of the meat to make beef and throwing everything else away is wrong. Which, BY THE WAY, is what usually happens. THAT, is NOT what God meant. And besides, I doubt he wanted us to MASS SLAUGHTER them, either. He wanted each person to go kill the animal THEY NEEDED, and use them for their needs.

Exactly, human, and killing humans is, I believe, considered murder......

And I said the beginning of the third trimester, or end of second, smart one.

And even if I didn't know that you can easily figure it out by the fact that it says TRI-mester, and tri means tree, or third.

I HAVE TO GO FOR TONIGHT, GOODBYE

For someone who has to go, you keep on posting.

Most moral doctors won't do an abortion too far into the SECOND trimester, they are most commonly done near the end of the FIRST trimester.

I know, I think that's wrong too, I never said it was right. I just said that using them for what we ABSOUTELY NEED is not torture.

[Spaz The Great]

But THAT'S the point. We NEVER DO THAT. We haven't done that, for decades now. Possibly centuries.... When you eat at KFC, McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc. etc. you are eating TORTURED ANIMAL MEAT. If you are against abortion because it's so "horrible", then stop eating meat unless you go out, kill it yourself, and make use of the ENTIRE animal((even if that means selling parts to leather makers or something)).

[rappo]

I can understand not agreeing with his policies on abortion and stuff, I don't care if you're against abortion - good for you. I may not agree but whatever, I realize people have differing views. But once you said this:

3) Obama Biden sounds a lot like Osama Bin Laden

you lost all credibility and respect from me because that is one of the dumbest things I could've ever read about this topic. It just went downhill from there to be honest.

And what's wrong with giving a telecast to Iranians? In my opinion that is a very important thing to do. In case you haven't noticed, more than half the world thinks the United States is a country full of dumb rednecks who like imposing their beliefs on everyone (and I don't blame them for thinking that). Actually talking to the people of countries we have various conflicts with is a hell of a lot better than bombing the shit out of it with little to no reasoning. So please, think before you type.

Edited January 28, 2009 by rappo

[Chris]

I didn't read everyone's replies except the first few and last few here, but wow. Seriously this is like, amazing stuff.

First of all, you come on a forum and post an Anti-Obama thread. Only 40% or so of our visitors are Americans, that's 60% of people right away that disagree with your views (or do you not believe various worldwide opinion polls either, pretty much every worthwhile country had a majority side for Obama). And I don't know what the final figures were for actual Americans voting, but obviously less than 50% of Americans agree with your views.

Expecting anyone here to agree with you is foolish.

And yes, as rappo just pointed out, you DID lose ALL credibility with the Bin Laden remark. Unbelievable.

[Franswurst]

I didn't read everyone's replies except the first few and last few here, but wow. Seriously this is like, amazing stuff.

First of all, you come on a forum and post an Anti-Obama thread. Only 40% or so of our visitors are Americans, that's 60% of people right away that disagree with your views (or do you not believe various worldwide opinion polls either, pretty much every worthwhile country had a majority side for Obama). And I don't know what the final figures were for actual Americans voting, but obviously less than 50% of Americans agree with your views.

Expecting anyone here to agree with you is foolish.

And yes, as rappo just pointed out, you DID lose ALL credibility with the Bin Laden remark. Unbelievable.

Damn straight!

In my opinion, I actually pity Obama a little, I do believe he is the better man for the job, and I know he won't be able to change everything instantly, if at all, but I do think he'll lead the country in the right direction. But the reason I pity him, is because the people hyped him up way too much, they made him out to be like a messiahs, and I think many will still realize that he can't just snap his fingers and make everything better. And as soon as he has to make a unpopular decision everybody will be on his ass because they expect nothing but greatness from him and probably don't understand how tough his job really is, and I find that unfair towards him.

Something people have to realize, especially the black people who think "yeah! now one of us is in office", Obama will still do whats best for the country and the world, and if you're poor now (no matter if you're black, white, mexican, or whatever) you will still be poor long after Obama leaves office if you don't try yourself to change that as well. Obama can only do so much with economic stimulus and all, but the people need to do something as well.

[draftermatt]

1) He's for abortion (a.k.a. legalized murder)

No one is for abortion. People are either pro choice or "pro life". I am personally pro choice. That said, abortion is not something I could ever imagine doing, or ever ask my wife to do. However, when situations such as rape, health problems, etc. are at hand it's warranted. And since I don't have a uterus, I feel I have no right to tell anyone what to do with theirs.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on masturbation, safe sex, etc. Because if you have sex without intention of creating life or masturbate, then aren't you "killing" thousands of sperm cells? And isn't the Bible against these?

2) His first day in office he signed a bill that allowed our taxes to be used for overseas abortions.

No he didn't. He re-funded programs that support safe sex initiatives, etc in 3rd world countries. These programs also help stop the spread of AIDS.

More over, it's better to have legal abortions available, especially in places like that as you'll likely see an increase in "back alley" abortions, and women dying.

3) Obama Biden sounds a lot like Osama Bin Laden

Seriously?

4) His first telecast was for Iranians. Wow.

He did that to make a point. To show the Middle East, etc that we are not a closed off, closed minded society. We won't broadcast only from our own television stations, we'll come to you and answer the hard questions you want to ask.

5) He closed Guantanamo bay and wants to let the prisoners go free.

No, he wants them to be tried and locked up in a maximum security prison. Do you know how many prisoners were let out under Bush? A lot. That means they apparently had done nothing wrong. But now after being locked up and tortured for 6+ years, who knows what they'll want to do to this country.

6) He's a democrat and very liberal

So were Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy & Lyndon Johnson, but I guess they were terrible Presidents too?

7) Wants a 1.3 Trillion dollar stimulus bill.

This is one I'm not sure of. I wasn't sure that Bush's stimulus was going to help much, and I'm unsure of this. But sadly, cutting taxes and etc isn't helping much.

8) Wants to pull out of the Iraq War

No he doesn't. He wants to refocus our energies on Afghanistan by pulling most of our troops out of Iraq. And guess what? Bush signed it so we would be out of Iraq by 2011, and Obama is just planning on speeding it up. Iraq wants us out, so why not let them run their own country and see what happens? If they fail they have no one to blame but themselves.

We'll always have troops and a presence in Iraq (did you know we're still in Germany even though WW2 ended 64 years ago?

9) Supports legal gay marriage

True, the Bible defines marriage as between a man and woman. However, we both know that people of the same sex have been hooking up for eons. The Spartans were homosexual warriors. They fought so hard because they wanted to save their lovers, and to look good in front of them.

If you don't want to call it marriage, then don't. We both know no Church will perform a ceremony anyway, even if it is legalized. But the fact is, people don't deserve to be discriminated against be it skin color, religion, accent, or sexual orientation. And gay couples are heavily discriminated against. If I go into the hospital my wife gets to call the shots on what happens with me. If a gay man's SO goes into the hospital, he often isn't even let into the room, and that's wrong.

10) He's very unexperienced

I've never understood this argument. Sometimes the best ideas come from people who haven't been around all that long.

Look at Joan of Arc...

You are welcome to your opinions, but if you want to come out and say them, you have to be able to defend them. Much of what you are doing is getting mad and saying "I don't want to fight" Which is fine, some people are attacking you. But come back at them with a researched and informed reason for your opinion and then you can have a civilized argument.

For the record I'm Catholic and considered being a priest for a long time when I was your age. And if you don't want someone to attack your religion then don't broadcast it on the internet. There are a lot of people out there who want to shoot down religion because it's "ancient" and etc. You know the arguments.

I have my own problems with Catholicism, but my argument to them is "Lots of things are ancient and out of style, that has no bearing in this conversation."

[JustADummy]

This is the only thing I have to say here:

Good God, you're a 13 year old without knowing many of the fucking points in here? Holy shit man, I guess you have negatives at ALL disciplines.

[Dirty Harry]

1) He's for abortion (a.k.a. legalized murder)

2) His first day in office he signed a bill that allowed our taxes to be used for overseas abortions. (Quite a priority apparently )

3) Obama Biden sounds a lot like Osama Bin Laden

4) His first telecast was for Iranians. Wow.

5) He closed Guantanamo bay and wants to let the prisoners go free.

6) He's a democrat and very liberal

7) Wants a 1.3 Trillion dollar stimulus bill.

8) Wants to pull out of the Iraq War

9) Supports legal gay marriage

10) He's very unexperienced

These are not all, but just but main 10 reasons.

Yes, I am a Very Conservative Republican Christian, but no I don't think that McCain would have been the best choice either.

What I do say though is that he is the much lesser of two evils.

This post is not meant to insult or offend anybody, just to state opinion and have a discussion with others about it.

1) Like others said, it's none of your business, and quite frankly, ever seen a new born? Disgusting little rat look alikes? Abortion should be legalized up higher than 2 weeks or whatever.

2)Do you want a world full of seropositives? Are you looking for somewhat of a twisted sexy Apocalypse?

3) Hahahahahahahahahaa. Oh man.

4) Iran does have alot of problems. America does like to solve other countries problems, for oil or whatever. SO yeah he cares about a country that is in danger and is dangerous, much like the US.

5) That jailhouse wasn't legal, and people didn't have the right to get a trial, ridiculous.

6) So, democrats shouldn't be presidents or hold office? Do you really want only one party? Like in a fucking dictator's regime?

7) Dunno what that is lolz.

8) Oh yeah, that's bad, there's thousands of your compatriots dying on a fucking lie, awesome.

9) Mmmm. So I guess you like being in the closet jerking off to wrestling matches...

10) Bah. Agreed kind of. Obama is a great speaker and certainly a hope filler but can he really change anything.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Dirty Harry

[_Ray]

That signature really oughta be banned considering that any nudity will get you warned on this site......

[MrLlamaLlama]

It's been like that for ages, if it was in breach of rules it would have been dealt with long before now. And also, anything that could be categorised as 'pornography' is not allowed. That image is from the front cover of some CD, and obviously fit for public display, ie, in a supermarket. WE decide who is warned or not.

Also loving your complete ignorance to people's counter - points.

[Franswurst]

That signature really oughta be banned considering that any nudity will get you warned on this site......

This topic should just be locked because this post obviously proves that he just has no idea what he's talking about, and that this is a complete waste of other peoples time, since he can't even go into the arguments made, and has to resort to pitiful comments about a sig, thats not breaking any rules...

[Spaz The Great]

That signature really oughta be banned considering that any nudity will get you warned on this site......

Again, who the hell are you to tell us what we should and shouldn't do? Typically conservatist republican Christian closed-minded homophobe..... Hopefully you fall into at least one of those categories so I don't feel stupid.

And quite frankly, we ARE just using this thread to tear apart someone who won't even acknowledge counter-arguments with something other then "STOP ATTACKING ME!!!!"..... So should it be closed?

[azn]

And quite frankly, we ARE just using this thread to tear apart someone who won't even acknowledge counter-arguments with something other then "STOP ATTACKING ME!!!!"..... So should it be closed?

I love Spaz's attacks on ignorant people

But this is epic, this is one of the largest GTA websites on the internet and you come here telling what the mods should do. Keep the argument on topic.

Honestly raybob, outside your beliefs and views on homosexuality and the President, you are a decent member. You use good, easy to read grammar and have a good knowledge about Grand Theft Auto games. not to mention you don't sound like a prick; but it's apparent you stirred the pot majorly with your beliefs that oh so many disagreed on.

[Kitsune Inferno]

That signature really oughta be banned considering that any nudity will get you warned on this site......

You obviously haven't seen what Chris posted in the LCF forum.

Also, good job proving to the rest of us that you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You're young and don't know how the world works. So until you grow up and actually do some fucking (oh noes, I said the "f-word"!!!) research about how politics work in the secular world, be quiet. You sound more intelligent.

[_Ray]

That signature really oughta be banned considering that any nudity will get you warned on this site......

Again, who the hell are you to tell us what we should and shouldn't do? Typically conservatist republican Christian closed-minded homophobe..... Hopefully you fall into at least one of those categories so I don't feel stupid.

And quite frankly, we ARE just using this thread to tear apart someone who won't even acknowledge counter-arguments with something other then "STOP ATTACKING ME!!!!"..... So should it be closed?

I am very proud to fall into your Right-Wing Conservative Christian Category.....

However, economically I am pretty moderate.....

Edited January 30, 2009 by raybob

[_Ray]

OK, to all that I have offended, I am sorry and will try to be less forward with my opinions, views, etc.

Also, I have edited out the bad parts in my original post.

[Harwood Butcher]

OK, to all that I have offended, I am sorry and will try to be less forward with my opinions, views, etc.

Also, I have edited out the bad parts in my original post.

I don't think you really understand what went on in this topic. You stated your views and beliefs...but couldn't defend them. If you think someone is "attacking" your beliefs/views/opinions such as this, you need to be able to defend them with something more than "Stop attacking my beliefs/views/opinions".

It’s perfectly fine that you have your own beliefs/views/opinions, but if you can’t explain them better or don’t have any better reasons than it’s because of your religion, then you’re going to run into things like this.

I’m Catholic too, but I don’t use that in any of my arguments, provided that the debate/argument isn’t about it, because most of the members here aren’t religious.

Believe me, I’ve been in a lot of debates/arguments about my beliefs/views/opinions and pretty much everyone else in here that you think has been “attacking” your beliefs…have had debates/arguments about my beliefs/views/opinions.

I’ve just been having a debate with everyone in the Skateboarding topic about me getting a tailbone, which has been going on for about 4 pages now. They’re trying to tell me not to buy something that I have my mind set on buying.

So don’t think that everyone in this topic thinks the same and or gets along with each other all the time. You just decided to have this topic when you first joined, which sort of gave you a bad idea of how we treat others and you gave us a bad first impression. You just have to be careful with what you post.

Just remember this, DO NOT VERBALLY ATTACK ANYONE WITH NAME CALLING AND OR SWEARING. You’ll be banned in a heart beat.

Edited January 30, 2009 by Harwood Butcher

[macorules94]

I seriously couldn't give a damn.

[azn]

Just remember this, DO NOT VERBALLY ATTACK ANYONE WITH NAME CALLING AND OR SWEARING. You'll be banned in a heart beat.

That does apply to everyone though,

[_Ray]

I seriously couldn't give a damn.

I don't even know who you are???

[Harwood Butcher]

Just remember this, DO NOT VERBALLY ATTACK ANYONE WITH NAME CALLING AND OR SWEARING. You'll be banned in a heart beat.

That does apply to everyone though,

It doesn't apply to me.

[Mpilk901]

I didn't post here before and I completely disagree with your original points, but at least after 4 pages of this nonsense you apologised.

Lock?

[_Ray]

I didn't post here before and I completely disagree with your original points, but at least after 4 pages of this nonsense you apologised.

Lock?

Just because you dont agree with my views, doesn't mean they're wrong or I can't have them.

My views haven't changed, I just said I'd try to be a little more objective.

And, why would you think it would be neccesary to lock this topic?